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How to Save a Ski Town

outsideonline.com

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Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#71

Post by buttercraft »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #56
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

the article points out something like 66% of the houses already there sit empty (averaged across the year). does that mean the "build more housing" idea is not the problem?

They're empty most of the year. Many second home owners in these places only use the homes for a few weeks out of the year.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#72

Post by throwaway0a5e »

verve_rat wrote: post #44
bamboozled wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your read the article, they cover this topic. There's also a kind of preservation of the culture of the town. Which I kind of agree with. Then there is also the fact that a lot of these places aren't used for housing, they're used as play houses or AirBnB's. So just adding more houses will likely mean more empty stuff in the town, probably making the problem worse.

So make empty houses (and AirBnB's) illegal (aka super taxed out the wazzoo). The people that live in a place should be able to say what they do and do not want in their town.

>So make empty houses (and AirBnB's) illegal (aka super taxed out the wazzoo).

Tourism industry runs on cash and being unscrupulous is pretty much a required bar for entry so taxing shit won't solve anything unless there's some magical enforcement mechanism that can be used without the industry that pays the bills voting the people who enact the taxes out of office.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#73

Post by judge2020 »

notatoad wrote: post #65
umeshunni wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that most of these towns depend entirely on tourists for theirs existence. Those tourist dollars depend on Airbnbs (no one is permitting new hotels in these towns).

the tourist dollars do not in any way depend on AirBnB's because most of these resorts were built before AirBnB and were planned, approved, and built with a plan based on hotel capacity. the number of hotel beds and the lift capacity the resorts are tied to each other. similarly, the number of bars and other tourist amenities also gets decided bases on hotel capacity, and while that may have changed since AirBnB star…

> these resorts were built before AirBnB

Ever heart of VRBO (est. 1995) or the entire VRMA (est. 1985)?

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#74

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

bobsmooth wrote: post #19
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

The article addresses this. In short, NIMBYism from second and third home owners makes this difficult.

Damn. Should have changed so that only residents get a vote.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#75

Post by umeshunni »

bamboozled wrote: post #63
umeshunni wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that most of these towns depend entirely on tourists for theirs existence. Those tourist dollars depend on Airbnbs (no one is permitting new hotels in these towns).

I'd imagine these towns survived just fine without AirBnBs for the last hundreds of years?

Yes and I'm sure they'll be content going back to the standards of living from hundreds of years ago.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#76

Post by SkyPuncher »

reducesuffering wrote: post #57
boringg wrote: post #50

One of the biggest problems that is hitting ski towns is the hyper cheap season passes that everyone buys. The model has created a huge surge of demand for people to go skiing in winter which has put pressure on the local ski towns (more short term rental demands, second home buyers) and the resources at ski mountains (aka the insane lines on a good ski day now). It's interesting because it has allowed a lot more peo…

Lift tickets are like 2x what they were 7 years ago. Prices are matching demand, I doubt it's vice versa. Personally, I think social media is the culprit for the increased demand. Previously people in most places barely knew skiing was an accessible thing to do. Now you have mimetic desire from their friends posting glamor shots at the resort for all to see.

Day lift tickets are up, but season passes aren't changing much. The model is just pushing people to pre-commit to purchasing.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#77

Post by Schiendelman »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #74
bobsmooth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article addresses this. In short, NIMBYism from second and third home owners makes this difficult.

Damn. Should have changed so that only residents get a vote.

Nobody should get a vote. Residents are the worst about opposing more housing.

The ONLY constitutional basis for getting a say over how much housing your neighbor builds is excluding Black people (see the appellate ruling, Ambler Realty v City of Euclid). All zoning in the United States is based on the power of that ruling to keep Black people out.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#78

Post by nradov »

reducesuffering wrote: post #57
boringg wrote: post #50

One of the biggest problems that is hitting ski towns is the hyper cheap season passes that everyone buys. The model has created a huge surge of demand for people to go skiing in winter which has put pressure on the local ski towns (more short term rental demands, second home buyers) and the resources at ski mountains (aka the insane lines on a good ski day now). It's interesting because it has allowed a lot more peo…

Lift tickets are like 2x what they were 7 years ago. Prices are matching demand, I doubt it's vice versa. Personally, I think social media is the culprit for the increased demand. Previously people in most places barely knew skiing was an accessible thing to do. Now you have mimetic desire from their friends posting glamor shots at the resort for all to see.

Also: skiing is fun.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#79

Post by SwagGrocery »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #54

Simple question: Why can't the restaurants and such raise prices? And thus pay?? The non-locals drove up the price of housing and were still ready, willing, and able to pay. Why should that cycle stop there?

Raising prices, and thus pay, would work if the people who drove up housing costs occupied those houses. But the houses are vacant. So they'll eventually drive out the locals, which will cause local businesses to close because they can't get workers, which will then decrease the value of the vacant houses. The investors will then sell, and the cycle will restart.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#80

Post by seattle_spring »

zz865 wrote: post #5

I quite like the rules in the Tirol - you can only own property if you live there. No second homes, no big hotels, no renting out houses. Just small owner operated hotels and locals.

That'd explain partially why I loved the vibe of that area so much. I'd live in Northern Italy in a heartbeat if I had the chance.
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