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The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

theaviationgeekclub.com

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Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#91

Post by imoverclocked »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #85
FearlessNebula wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t a well trained pilot (like somebody learning on the SR71) be very familiar with what a slow airplane feels like? I’m shocked that a skilled pilot would have allowed that plane to get so dangerously slow.

Yeah it sounds like a tall tale. "Falling at a slight bank" sounds like ideal conditions for onset of a spin. Which a pilot would be very wary of when close to the ground because it means certain death. Also, would it be possible to fly level at such a speed in an SR71? And isn't there a HUD and vertical speed warner? On the other hand their expectation of being grounded sounds pretty accurate :) Oh well I never flew…

> isn't there a HUD and vertical speed warner?

On a 1960's SR-71? Probably not [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird#/medi...

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#92

Post by NikolaeVarius »

aynyc wrote: post #75
rossjudson wrote: post #59

You can read anything you want about the SR-71, but nothing compares to actually seeing it in person. It is my single favorite engineered object. It's in the Dulles Air and Space museum. Go see it, if you can. You won't regret it.

It's also on the Intrepid. The first time I saw it in person, my brain didn't understand how it could fly. It's massive. It looks like a space shuttle rather than a jet.

The aircraft on the Intrepid is not a SR-71 Blackbird, it is a A-12. They look similar, but are pretty different.

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#93

Post by teeray »

FearlessNebula wrote: post #69
mmaunder wrote: post #9

Stick and Rudder is the best read out there if you want an intuitive pilots understanding of what happened here. It unpacks angle of attack from a pilots perspective rather than using engineer speak. At that speed the control surfaces of the Blackbird would have had very little effect which is incredibly scary as you’re approaching a stall low and slow. They’d need big deflections to keep her straight and it would ha…

Wouldn’t a well trained pilot (like somebody learning on the SR71) be very familiar with what a slow airplane feels like? I’m shocked that a skilled pilot would have allowed that plane to get so dangerously slow.

Yeah, probably. But in aeronautical decision making training, you learn that other stuff going on in the cockpit can cause “simple” things to get overlooked. They were looking for the field in low visibility which took the pilot’s attention off the aeronautical health of the aircraft. This is why the stall horn and things like GPWS callouts are a thing. His skill did come into play when he had an atavistic sense that something was wrong, confirmed it was so, and firewalled the throttles.

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#94

Post by irjustin »

ranger_danger wrote: post #22
macintux wrote: post #4

SR-71 stories are legendary. Here's another classic from the same site: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/sr-71-blackbird-pilot-tells-...

apparently some air traffic controllers disagree with this story being possible: https://old.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fbt4rq/la_speed_che...

If you read the comment thread, lots of people throw doubt on the doubter's story especially around the VHF band.

What's sort of weird is the ATC says they were a controller in the 90's. Could things have changed between the when the story happened and this person was an ATC Controller?

"Speed Classified" might have been different in the early days of the 71's program. Same with the flight ceilings.

To me, the only thing that hasn't been refuted yet is the speed measurement. Specifically the part where it's a multiple of 1842 (or 1942 as was told in the story).

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#95

Post by mannykannot »

jacquesm wrote: post #49
userbinator wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar thing happens with boats --- the rudder only has an effect when water is moving past it, so it's more difficult to maneuver when moving slowly.

Maneuvering a regular (stern) driven boat without a bow screw at low speeds is super hard. There is this 10 year old kid at a marina near where I live that handles all of the rental boats, I've seen them do this in absolutely impossible situations with a grace and skill that really blows my mind, it's like the boat is on rails and does exactly what they want it to do. Even the box shaped 'party boats', and those are…

This reminds me of something I had completely forgotten: many years ago, we spent a week cruising an English canal in a narrowboat, which have the basic setup of a fixed-in-azimuth propeller and a rudder. One morning, a guy went by backing up a sixty-footer at about 5 knots for about a quarter-mile, until he could swing the stern into a junction to turn it around. It took me a while to get my jaw up off the deck.

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#96

Post by yutyut »

sdoering wrote: post #29
HPsquared wrote: post #20

I often think about life using aviation analogies. You need to have enough airspeed, for instance, to maintain lift: one must keep moving to survive. Don't stall your wing with too much angle of attack = don't bite off more than you can chew. Etc etc...

Interesting. Do you have more? Would love to hear.

A few aviation idioms that come to mind.

1. "Stay ahead of the aircraft."

i.e. anticipate and manage administrative (or tactical) minutiae to put yourself in the best possible position when the tempo increases.

2. "Aviate, aviate, aviate...then navigate and communicate" (already mentioned).

This is commonly used during a crew brief prior to a flight, particularly when discussing emergency procedures. Focus on the most critical thing (EP immediate action items, keeping the bird aloft, not hitting lead or the ground) and when that's done, use your remaining bandwidth to complete the 'nice-to-have' items (e.g. keeping the flight on course, a MAYDAY call, or an advisory call to the flight/controller). I like to really emphasize the aviate portion during my briefs. Junior pilots have a tendency to try and do all three things simultaneously which can compound an already bad situation.

"Waveoff's are free."

If you see a landing going bad, don't hesitate to use a mulligan.

*Free as in you won't be judged for choosing to 'go-around' but will be held accountable if you push a bad situation that you could have prevented through better judgement.

Get-there-itis: Wanting to accomplish something (e.g. get to a cool destination or hit a time on target) so badly that you will accept unnecessary risk in order to achieve whatever you're trying to do. Many aviation (and life) mishaps are the indirect result of get-there-itis; most notably, accepting poor weather or an aircraft with maintenance issues.

This is kind of fun and I could go on...

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#97

Post by irjustin »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #87
ranger_danger wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea there doesn't seem to be one generally believed consensus. The ATC guys may simply be wrong about not having access to VHF. It could be that it depends on the mission as to whether or not they would be using them. But they could also be right that an SR wouldn't be asking for speed checks or that ATC can't see their real speed in some way. I don't know.

He makes some other good points too though about not being able to see speeds that high and them being classified. It is a cool story though, kinda hope it's true but it does sound a bit too epic to be true.

It's still believable, when the 71 started flying it's possible "speed classified" hadn't been introduced yet.

To me the only thing that the doubter's story that hasn't been refuted well is the number being too specific.

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#98

Post by Diesel555 »

FearlessNebula wrote: post #69
mmaunder wrote: post #9

Stick and Rudder is the best read out there if you want an intuitive pilots understanding of what happened here. It unpacks angle of attack from a pilots perspective rather than using engineer speak. At that speed the control surfaces of the Blackbird would have had very little effect which is incredibly scary as you’re approaching a stall low and slow. They’d need big deflections to keep her straight and it would ha…

Wouldn’t a well trained pilot (like somebody learning on the SR71) be very familiar with what a slow airplane feels like? I’m shocked that a skilled pilot would have allowed that plane to get so dangerously slow.

Some aircraft don't buffet much when they get slow, while other aircraft may buffet a lot (slow as a simple term for high angle of attack (AOA), but high AOA can occur from G-forces - back stick pressure - as well).

Those aircraft also use a digital flight control system that commands G instead of direct deflection of the surfaces. Therefore the aircraft feels the same at the speeds in which it is capable of delivering the G it is asked to deliver. The same back stick pressure delivers the same G. This is much different than a mechanical system in which you get more G if you are faster.

The F-16 is one such aircraft. It feels very similar at 250 knots and 650 knots.

Of course an experienced pilot immediately recognizes when the aircraft hits the G-limit due to speed. For example, at 200 knots it can't pull 5 Gs. But that only occurs when you are pulling on the stick and not in straight and level flight.

The angle of attack of being slow (just being more leaned back in the jet) is more subtle and and doesn't usually present itself until you are already really slow. The automatic flaperons and leading edge flaps, which give the wing more camber automatically, are partially a reason for this.

Point is, the slowness maybe not be as obvious as you think.

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#99

Post by [deleted] »

serf wrote: post #38
buryat wrote: post #36

SR-71 speed check One time we were going fast a small plane got on the radio and said "how fast am i going" the tower said "you are going fast" and then a bigger plane got on the radio and said "haha i think i am going faster how fast am i going" and the tower said "you are going a little faster" and then a jet fighter was going really fast and talked like a really cool guy and said "hey there, I sound like a cool gu…

you know how some people have a talent for story-telling, painting vivid landscapes and heroic deeds with words and prose? you have a talent for story-telling, but sort of from the opposite end of the spectrum; you sucked all of the heroism and bravado out of the story without actually misrepresenting any of the facets of it. nice work.

[deleted]

Re: The slowest SR-71 Blackbird fly-by

#100

Post by Diesel555 »

sdoering wrote: post #29
HPsquared wrote: post #20

I often think about life using aviation analogies. You need to have enough airspeed, for instance, to maintain lift: one must keep moving to survive. Don't stall your wing with too much angle of attack = don't bite off more than you can chew. Etc etc...

Interesting. Do you have more? Would love to hear.

There is nothing more worthless than runway behind you, altitude above you, and gas you already burned.

Don't worry about what you don't have, worry about capitalizing on what you do have. And don't waste what you have.

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