How to Save a Ski Town • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#21

Post by bluefirebrand » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

In Canada a lot of our Ski towns are in provincial or federal parks, meaning there will never be significant housing built, to protect the parkland.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#22

Post by micro_cam » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

mastax wrote: post #2

I imagine the Swiss have dealt with similar situations, I wonder what they would suggest? Pay employees way more is probably step one. I'm the "build more housing" guy, but it looks like the Swiss have chosen a different path?

They have much better trains / public transit to bring both workers and day tourists in and much denser towns with lots of old small living spaces.

I'm no expert but do live in a western mountain town and have an old climbing friend who just bought a closet to live in in the Alps.

Part of the issue here is towns have very limited sewage and water systems so its not like you can just build new apartments/duplexes/tiny houses/trailer parks on the outside of town ... you need a pretty big lot to put in a septic system and well and at that point you buy a lot you might as well build a 3+ bedroom McMansion to maximise returns.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#23

Post by Swizec » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:20 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

You see the problem is one of incentives.

New people want more housing but can’t vote because they aren’t residents. Old people want high real estate prices and can vote because they’re residents or own property.

Guess who wins when it’s time for local political leadership to decide on important issues.

Now if housing wasn’t considered an investment and prices were kept flat somehow, that would solve the nimby problem immediately. But it would also bankrupt several generations of existing homeowners so we can’t do that.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#24

Post by PeterisP » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:24 AM UTC

bobsmooth wrote: post #19

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

The article addresses this. In short, NIMBYism from second and third home owners makes this difficult.

That's interesting; where I'm from, people only get votes at one municipality (I they qualify for multiple, they choose one as the primary residence), so any people with secondary homes for vacations or rentals are automatically outvoted by the actual residents in local elections.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#25

Post by zz865 » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

I think one issue is places like Vail, PC, Tahoe are already spread out. Going there on vacation doesn't feel special at all, just feels like you're in some generic suburb. Places like Tremblant are nicer as there is a compact walkable town where all the buildings are 5 stories tall.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#26

Post by pomian » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

We have seen this issue locally and traveling, North America and Europe. A very good solution, but requiring cooperation and strong town Council (and perhaps some retro-action) is that every single business in town, provides staff housing - alternatively builds staff housing above their business. Imagine if their was an apartment for every employee.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#27

Post by silisili » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

This issue is nationwide(as noted), and only going to get worse.

The only way out of this is to find a way to eliminate or make very, very difficult investment housing, full stop.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#28

Post by the_gipsy » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:30 AM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #9

Honest question, have any of these ski towns tried allowing the construction of a significant amount of housing? I.e. housing growth that actually scales with the growth in demand? None of the ones I've visited seem at all dense. (Been to Vail, Beaver Creek, Park City, and all over Tahoe.) All the consternation over the housing crisis is maddening to me because it seems like universally (in the US), we're willing to…

> the one thing that basic economics suggests would actually work

More houses attract more people which increases housing cost.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#29

Post by barry-cotter » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:35 AM UTC

geephroh wrote: post #13

Ironic coming from one of the media outlets responsible for destroying so many mountain towns by putting them on "must-visit" destination lists for the IG crowd. But those $200 camp chairs and $800 puffy jackets aren't going to sell themselves, I suppose...

Man, those people are awful aren't they? Telling people about nice places and nice things. It's supposed to be for the special people, like us. Idiots, blabbing about our stuff, ruining it.

Re: How to Save a Ski Town

#30

Post by bamboozled » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

Same thing is happening in Asia. I know a few local towns, one in particular where some foreign guy now has his Japanese real estate license and access to a bunch of foreign investors looking for places.

It's becoming an unmitigated disaster. The population of the town is somewhat severely aged; However, rather than that being an opportunity for young people to get a start, this property snake steps in an steals everything at a higher price than the locals could afford and makes up a bunch of stories of why he should have it. He pays people for information so we can get the jump on places.

It's really quite stressful, it seems there is nothing that can stop the guy.

A second similar property snake has arrived too, with a similar back story, access to huge pool of money from China/Hong Kong/Maylasia.

We moved here recently because we wanted to live in a community, but it's getting pretty hammered now, we wil hang on for the time being and try find a place, not ready to give up yet.