Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation • Hacker News Board

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#51

Post by exclipy » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

calsy wrote: post #47

323 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been documented cases of infections happening in seconds. Yes, longer exposure time increases infection probability, but the 15 min threshold is arbitrary, like the 2 meter social distancing. A bit like the "you can pick up food from the floor if it sat there for less than 5 seconds" meme.

How are infections measured in seconds?

In Australia earlier this year when infections were happening the rate of single-digits per day, they could trace the source of an infection to a fleeting encounter of two people walking past each other in a shop.

Source: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-22/covid19-cctv-footage-...

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#52

Post by mlyle » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #35

_delirium wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that's true. My experience so far has been pretty minor symbolic changes though. My employer sent emails about how they swapped their MERV filters for slightly better ones, and something hand-wavy about adjusting the external air percentage "when feasible" (with no numbers). I would be surprised if they do major retrofits, like a new heat exchange system allowing significantly higher percentage of outside air,…

Well, given that virus particles start to be meaningfully filtered only at a certain MERV level (14?), that upgrade may in fact have been more than a "minor symbolic" gesture.

MERV-13 is pretty good. Better than 90% filtration at 1 micrometer and up. It then comes down to how many air changes you can expect.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#53

Post by shmel » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

KevinEldon wrote: post #6

coding123 wrote: post #3

> The world is finally coming to terms with the realization that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is airborne It's funny. The world is definitely a place we are willing to let 5 million people die. But we are definitely not allowed to have a single study where we have 1 definitely infected person stand in an air sealed room for 1 hour 6 feet away with someone not infected. Don't get me wrong, I have been wearing a blue 3M…

You’re volunteering?

Come on, there are tons of people who believe that masks are the final answer. They should volunteer.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#54

Post by bo1024 » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

calsy wrote: post #47

323 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been documented cases of infections happening in seconds. Yes, longer exposure time increases infection probability, but the 15 min threshold is arbitrary, like the 2 meter social distancing. A bit like the "you can pick up food from the floor if it sat there for less than 5 seconds" meme.

How are infections measured in seconds?

I think the person meant that it only took seconds of total contact time to cause an infection. Even if the infection took days to develop.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#55

Post by selimthegrim » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #24

KevinEldon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re volunteering?

It's trivial to get volunteers. I'll volunteer. In the US we're around SARS2 spreaders all the time. Every time you spend ~30 minutes walking around in a major retail store chain you're highly likely to be exposed to SARS2. Now do that N times per week like most Americans have been for the past year plus. What am I supposed to be afraid of compared to that? I've had Covid; early into the pandemic. It was quite unplea…

Imagine all those anti vaxxers' complaints about "It's being rushed out too quickly" and "It hasn't been studied yet" magnified with your proposed express schedule. Do you think there wouldn't have been vaccine hesitancy in those 100k?

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#56

Post by mike_hock » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #10

nicoburns wrote: post #4

This agrees with my intuitive impression of everything I've read on Covid-19: that the primary transmission vector is through the being in unventilated or poorly ventilated enclosed spaces with an infected person for ~15 minutes or longer. I definitely feel like neither governmental policies or people's individual precautions and behaviours quite reflect that reality.

A potentially fantastic outcome from all this is that many more public and private spaces will be designed and retrofitted with very good ventilation. Beyond curbing the spread of natural airborne diseases, it also may decrease the attack vector in our societies for airborne bio-terrorism/warfare. And even beyond all that, we're becoming increasingly aware of how important clean air is for our overall health even wit…

> it also may decrease the attack vector in our societies for airborne bio-terrorism/warfare

Sounds extremely far-fetched. Any terrorist attack will be designed with the countermeasures in mind. Deploying enough biological agent to swamp the ventilation system would likely not be an issue.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#57

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

WithinReason wrote: post #49

jonstewart wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This paper’s from March, 2020?

Note that I said "since the beginning".

Which is also incorrect; the US Surgeon General tweeted masks "are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus" in Feb 2020, and Fauci said "There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask" in Mar 2020. Recommendations were frequently firmly against masking early on.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#58

Post by kbelder » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #8

coding123 wrote: post #3

> The world is finally coming to terms with the realization that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 is airborne It's funny. The world is definitely a place we are willing to let 5 million people die. But we are definitely not allowed to have a single study where we have 1 definitely infected person stand in an air sealed room for 1 hour 6 feet away with someone not infected. Don't get me wrong, I have been wearing a blue 3M…

Like the mountain of evidence (videos, photos, scientific proof, testimony from people who have actually gone up and seen it) has shut up the flat earth community.

It pretty much has. Nobody believes it except a small number of crazy people.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#59

Post by anonporridge » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #21

anonporridge wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A potentially fantastic outcome from all this is that many more public and private spaces will be designed and retrofitted with very good ventilation. Beyond curbing the spread of natural airborne diseases, it also may decrease the attack vector in our societies for airborne bio-terrorism/warfare. And even beyond all that, we're becoming increasingly aware of how important clean air is for our overall health even wit…

I hope that's true. My experience so far has been pretty minor symbolic changes though. My employer sent emails about how they swapped their MERV filters for slightly better ones, and something hand-wavy about adjusting the external air percentage "when feasible" (with no numbers). I would be surprised if they do major retrofits, like a new heat exchange system allowing significantly higher percentage of outside air,…

It will eventually become just another element in economic selection.

The wealthy and the high income earners will start avoiding buildings, businesses, and organizations that won't or can't sufficiently upgrade to be considered safe. Their money will flow and support the healthy/safe alternatives.

Those that are left behind will be the dregs that the poor and desperate use and will gradually fall into disrepair until their owners go bankrupt or give up and sell to someone who has the means and drive to upgrade or demolish and rebuild.

The same thing happens to any old infrastructure where people can vote with their feet.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#60

Post by DoingIsLearning » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

Also worth mentioning that this is historically not unprecedented.

During the Spanish Flu the agreed policy for the schools that remained open was to have outside classrooms for children, or in winter to keep the heating on but with all windows open.