A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#41

Post by Schroedingersat » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:15 PM UTC

reddog wrote: post #30

bmitc wrote: post #22

I saw this video yesterday and one thing I wondered was, why isn't the company legally, and thus financially and criminally, held responsible for this disaster? If I as an individual dump a bunch of toxic waste, especially something that kills thousands of animals, then I would be held responsible in a vice grip-like manner. I never understand why if something is done by a company, or individual with large wealth, bu…

Because the company in the video -- Atlantic Richfield Company, aka ARCO -- acquired the pit in 1977 only to shut it down in 1982 after discovering what a white elephant it was. The company that actually dug the thousands of miles of tunnels and later the pit was Anaconda Copper (one of the most rapacious, amoral corporations to ever exist) which went belly up in 1983. Anaconda Copper made fortunes for the usual susp…

Then we hold the people who profited off of Anaconda responsible for it rather than shrugging and going 'oh well, the laws they wrote say we just have to let them keep doing it.'

Easy fix to get it done, the rockefellers and rothschilds are visiting the bottom of the pit naked in 2025. Their choice as to whether it is still full of poison.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#42

Post by readme » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:16 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #40

jonas21 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said they simply get away with it? BP is responsible for cleaning up the site, at an estimated cost of $150M. They're responsible because they bought ARCO, which had acquired the site from the original mining company. They're the ones who built the water treatment plant that's shown in the Tom Scott video that someone linked to, and either they or Montana Resources (a mining company) are paying for everything sho…

What does "cleaning up" mean? Wouldn't that mean moving the toxic stuff to some other part of the environment?

>Wouldn't that mean moving the toxic stuff to some other part of the environment?

sounds like we have a problem here

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#43

Post by readme » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

tofof wrote: post #6

It's frustrating that the description of the video and the first few seconds of the video both establish a narrative of "acid cooking birds from the inside out " if they spend a few hours in the water, which makes absolutley zero sense. At no point in the entire video is that claim revisisted or explained.

right near the beginning they explained how ground water fills the quarry with sulfuric acid

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#44

Post by londons_explore » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #40

jonas21 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said they simply get away with it? BP is responsible for cleaning up the site, at an estimated cost of $150M. They're responsible because they bought ARCO, which had acquired the site from the original mining company. They're the ones who built the water treatment plant that's shown in the Tom Scott video that someone linked to, and either they or Montana Resources (a mining company) are paying for everything sho…

What does "cleaning up" mean? Wouldn't that mean moving the toxic stuff to some other part of the environment?

Nearly everything toxic can be made non-toxic. Sometimes it's just expensive or hard to do.

Sounds like the issues here are heavy metals and sulfuric acid. Both of those are treatable.

Presumably just paying this guy is cheaper tho.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#45

Post by drjasonharrison » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #40

jonas21 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said they simply get away with it? BP is responsible for cleaning up the site, at an estimated cost of $150M. They're responsible because they bought ARCO, which had acquired the site from the original mining company. They're the ones who built the water treatment plant that's shown in the Tom Scott video that someone linked to, and either they or Montana Resources (a mining company) are paying for everything sho…

What does "cleaning up" mean? Wouldn't that mean moving the toxic stuff to some other part of the environment?

The Britannia copper and zince mine in British Columbia Canada, between Vancouver and Whistler, hosts of the 2010 Olympics, was ignored as a source of heavy metals into the ocean.

A waste treatment plant, water capture and treatment, and deeper discharge into the ocean led to improved water quality and copper extraction.

https://mineclosure.gtk.fi/britannia-mine-british-columbia-c...

Someday we will process our landfill for their precious metals. Before that we should use insitu remediation to extract currently "unprofitable to extract" metals from closed mines.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#46

Post by drjasonharrison » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #44

andrewstuart wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "cleaning up" mean? Wouldn't that mean moving the toxic stuff to some other part of the environment?

Nearly everything toxic can be made non-toxic. Sometimes it's just expensive or hard to do. Sounds like the issues here are heavy metals and sulfuric acid. Both of those are treatable. Presumably just paying this guy is cheaper tho.

Here the open pit mine creates a huge surface area for the oxidation of metals and then the combination of rainfall and metals. In a working mine, this is the function of a closed loop leaching field.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#47

Post by drjasonharrison » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

chasebank wrote: post #5

danboarder wrote: post #4

I'm wondering why they don't fire up the original pump system that drained the pit back in the mining days?

I wondered the same thing. I imagine it's because it used to pump the water out before it became toxic from absorbing the metals.

More likely the water was pumped out when the mine was operating because digging, blasting, and other mining activities are easier when the equipment and people can breathe the atmosphere.

I don't know when the pumps were turned off but it would have been after the mine ceased operations, possibly after the owners threatened to walk away completely. Because they could do that in the USA, and many other parts of the world.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#48

Post by drjasonharrison » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:13 PM UTC

akudha wrote: post #7

chasebank wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered the same thing. I imagine it's because it used to pump the water out before it became toxic from absorbing the metals.

That was my first thought too. They are spending so much money on gear and employing someone full time - wouldn't it be cheaper to just drain it? There must be a reason they aren't doing it. Also, he can't be there 24 hours - what happens if a bird lands on the water at night?

They are pumping water out, treating it and returning the water at a higher pH (more alkaline). But oxidized metal minerals plus rain water results in acid.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#49

Post by teetertater » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:34 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #3

It's hard to read in this format, but I recommend Kate Beaton's comic, "Ducks". https://beatonna.tumblr.com/post/81993262830/here-is-a-sketc...

Depressing but interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I have many friends from BC/Alberta that spent a year or two in the oil sands and made a boatload of money, I feel like this gives a good glimpse into it.

Re: A man who shoots at birds to keep them off a toxic pit [video]

#50

Post by scottlawson » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 11:36 PM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #18

throwawaysea wrote: post #16

So are they going to have this person or persons man the pit indefinitely? I see they have some automated measures like the propane cannon but at some point shouldn’t they just put a net on top of the whole pit to keep birds off it?

Or float those plastic balls [1] on it, like they do for some reservoirs to stop evaporation. It'd take a lot of them, but that'd work and could be both cheaper and more permanent. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxPdPpi5W4o

I also wondered about the net. Never considered the ball idea, that's very interesting. One thing the video doesn't cover is potential other solutions there are for protecting birds. Maybe they have just been doing it for such a long time that nobody thinks about alternative solutions, combined with the fact that they have already spent money into the bird hut and other equipment and further investments in alternatives would just not have a higher net present value.