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Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

reuters.com

21–30 of 168 posts

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#23
I read a lot of these wacko things coming out of Australia, but is any of it really enforced? Wasn't there a thing about banning encryption?

I remember when Malcolm Turnbull made the quote: “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,”

[1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathema...

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion. I would agree to an extent, but I think there are a few examples where the government should step in. Child porn being the biggest.

All of the things where this legitimately applies are things that aren't really happening on the internet. They're happening in some specific place. Are there pedophiles abusing children in your country? Then go arrest them. They won't be posting anything on the internet while they're in prison. Are there pedophiles abusing children in some other country? That is that country's problem, not yours. Nothing about the i…

> That is that country's problem, not yours.

I agree in principle. However (China nonwithstanding) the internet knows no borders. Any one country not policing and arresting CP provides material for paedophiles in any other country.

If consuming online CP increases the likelihood that paedophiles will go on to abuse children (as I suspect it would) then child abuse in another country is your problem.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#26
I think reducing the harms that are done by trolls and various other bad actors on the internet is an important question for this era. But this might not be the main motivation behind these new proposals. One of the most concerning parts of this is that the rules around what trolling is and who gets to determine who is a troll have not been a prominent part of the discussion. There's important recent political context here that international readers may be missing, the current federal government campaigned at the last election with a promise to introduce a independent federal anti-corruption commission but in recent times has completely backflipped on this (https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-must-honour...). Australia's mass media ownership is remarkably centralized with Murdoch owning an extremely high percentage of the print media in the country (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-14/fact-file-rupert-murd...). This has led to a number of high profile people including two former prime ministers from both side of the political divide to speak out and say there's a major problem (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/21/forme...). This is also why we had that legislation that aimed to force social media to pay the print media for links, there's very clear evidence that the Murdoch media machine has very deep influence with the current system of Australian politics. This is relevant because for many years this same media organization was being exceedingly supportive of the Berijiklian government in NSW and was actively avoiding reporting on their corruption and generally reported in a persistent positively biased way on certain people in that government (and important to note that this positive reporting was done on people who's conduct wasn't ethical). As a result a lot of local populace just simply didn't know how bad things were, discussions on other non-Murdoch media and social media was the way in which many people became aware of just how bad the corruption really was in NSW. I mean sure you didn't have to dig that hard, or maybe even at all, because the deputy premier liked to boast about how he engaged in pork barrelling and other such conduct (for foreign readers, this is not satire or an exaggeration, he literally used to openly claim this as a badge of honor: https://happymag.tv/barilaro-blue-mountains-bushfire-relief-...). But the corruption was by Australian standard bad: https://jacobinmag.com/2021/10/australia-nsw-premier-berejik..., had it been other politicians involved it would have been in the newspapers frequently. Once news of this finally got out this eventually led to the leaders of the NSW State government being ousted. The persistent corruption and unethical behavior of a small group was brought into the open by an investigation of the NSW anti-corruption commission and the news was impossible to ignore at this point. This episode also involved the arrest without a warrant (with proper process not being followed) of a journalist who was investigating this corruption. There was also a defamation case brought up by the deputy premier against a Youtuber who was documenting the corruption of the deputy premier. After the scandal was well and truly out in the open the deputy premier resigned and settled the defamation case as a defense based on truth of claims looked fairly certain to prevail and the political backing he once had was gone (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-05/john-barilaro-settles...). Since this episode of NSW politics has unfolded the pushes to have a federal independent corruption commission have once again been prevented from moving forward. The main thing that concerns many people is that these defamation laws might in practice be used only to silence people talking about corruption and other political opponents much like what was seen very recently in 2021 in NSW. It is entirely possible that the stated aim of reducing harm to people in the community won't actually be a priority here at all. Hopefully an informed discussion can be had here and good laws can be created, there's most certainly issues with trolls and various bad faith actors online so hopefully good policy can be made in this space.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#27
post #2

>The online world should not be a wild west where bots and bigots and trolls and others are anonymously going around and can harm people I can't express how much I hate this. The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion.

There are definitely state-sponsored bots, bigots, and trolls on the internet.

States tend to want a monopoly on harming people.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#28
post #2

>The online world should not be a wild west where bots and bigots and trolls and others are anonymously going around and can harm people I can't express how much I hate this. The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion.

>The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion. I would agree to an extent, but I think there are a few examples where the government should step in. Child porn being the biggest.

Laws for that sort of thing already exist, so that's obviously not what they're talking about when they say "unmask trolls". It's clear these Australian politicians are authoritarians who are upset about people insulting them online.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#29
post #2

>The online world should not be a wild west where bots and bigots and trolls and others are anonymously going around and can harm people I can't express how much I hate this. The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion.

I actually like this. The companies can be forced and the users can learn to shield themselves. I obviously see the threat that perhaps my own currently benign opinions can be civilly and criminally sanctionable in the future. But I think this isn't an absurd predictable use of state power: regulate the intermediaries. Let individuals know there are consequences. Maybe people don't actually believe the things they are saying, reduce it.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the things where this legitimately applies are things that aren't really happening on the internet. They're happening in some specific place. Are there pedophiles abusing children in your country? Then go arrest them. They won't be posting anything on the internet while they're in prison. Are there pedophiles abusing children in some other country? That is that country's problem, not yours. Nothing about the i…

> That is that country's problem, not yours. I agree in principle. However (China nonwithstanding) the internet knows no borders. Any one country not policing and arresting CP provides material for paedophiles in any other country. If consuming online CP increases the likelihood that paedophiles will go on to abuse children (as I suspect it would) then child abuse in another country is your problem.

> If consuming online CP increases the likelihood that paedophiles will go on to abuse children (as I suspect it would) then child abuse in another country is your problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relationship_between_child_por...

TLDR: All we have are correlational studies that conflict with each other, and correlational studies are inherently dogshit regardless, so that hasn't been established at all.

This seems identical to the argument that we need to do something about violent video games from other countries because they could cause someone to commit an act of violence in your country. It hasn't been established that this actually happens, but if someone does the bad thing in your country then they still go to prison. People are responsible for their own actions.

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