Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#141

Post by matchagaucho » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

The US eSign Act is a good read. Its only 3 pages, but gives an idea of what is required for compliance in the US.

The top solutions in this market must know the sSign compliance rules in many countries, and industry-specific compliance within each country.

Long-tail eSign solutions that are able to focus on a specific industry, country, or niche are more likely to charge per transaction, or a low subscription fee.

So for your lease agreement use case, the Lenders/Landlords likely have several SaaS options at their disposal for one-off transactions.

https://www.fdic.gov/resources/supervision-and-examinations/...

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#142

Post by yojo » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

mtlynch wrote: post #5

I haven't found free, open-source solutions, but HelloSign[0] is a decent solution if you only need to sign documents a few times per year. Their free tier supports three documents per month. They make it look like they only have paid plans, but you can sign up without a credit card for a free tier. [0] https://www.hellosign.com/

I’ve also used HelloSign for lease agreements and the like, and it has been totally fine. It does not seem to have timestamps more granular than date (e.g. no hour/minute), but that seems unlikely to be actually necessary.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#143

Post by yojo » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:39 AM UTC

elil17 wrote: post #41

If you want to e-sign lease agreements, you don’t need any special software. You can just have the signee type their name in the signature space and email the document back to you. The date of the email will be evidence of the timestamp, and the email records are commonly accepted in court. That’s just as legally binding as Docusign. The reason people use Docusign is to keep track of a large number of legal ageeement…

This is all true, but even that small amount of friction can be a nuisance, especially if the signer is not particularly technically savvy. I use HelloSign’s free tier and am happy to not have to explain to the leasee how to annotate a PDF.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#144

Post by sushsjsuauahab » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:41 AM UTC

Teever wrote: post #140

judge2020 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an audit log of access (both email and IP address) is extremely useful if someone asks "did this person actually perform the e-signature". You can then perform motions regarding whether their email has compromised and, if needed, go to their ISP for IP assignment records to see if their account (mobile or home internet) was assigned to that IP. Docusign being the source of authority for the validity of the ori…

I've always felt that this is the kind of service that a government should offer. It seems a little silly to have to pay a private entity for this kind of service and also a bit unreasonable that a private entity like Docusign is so enmeshed with the legal system.

The government can barely keep a port open or bomb a proper target, and we want to give them control over what is true and what isn't?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#145

Post by bubblethink » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:42 AM UTC

crummy wrote: post #37

dsizzle wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've signed PDFs digitally overlaying a digital version in Preview on a Mac, which is free -- for all parties. I'm not sure how much more legal wiggle room there is for that version vs Docusign. Either way, as noted, DocuSign has other features.

This is my favourite lifehack. I don't own a scanner and signing docs can be a pain without it. A very few places will reject the Preview-signed copy, wanting a hand signature, but you can filter the pages a bit (tilt slightly, add noise) and they won't know the difference.

Parts of the US government will reject this and other types of electronic signatures including stylus/apple pencil type devices. The regulations explicitly mention 'wet-ink', and even when they allow copies, they have to be copies of wet-ink (i.e., scan of an actually signed doc). There are a lot of ass-backwards policies even in the west, and I can assure you that it's much worse in the rest of the world. So you really need to know where the document is going.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#146

Post by Teever » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

sushsjsuauahab wrote: post #144

Teever wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always felt that this is the kind of service that a government should offer. It seems a little silly to have to pay a private entity for this kind of service and also a bit unreasonable that a private entity like Docusign is so enmeshed with the legal system.

The government can barely keep a port open or bomb a proper target, and we want to give them control over what is true and what isn't?

Would you advocate for the privatization of the entire justice system?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#147

Post by Spooky23 » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #24

My guess - DocuSign has a hard to penetrate moat: It's known and accepted in courts. Everything else doesn't really matter. Imagine you're a legal department. You have to choose between DocuSign, which you know the court will accept, or a competitor. DocuSign costs 10x as much as the competitor. But that's nothing compared to the cost of litigation, or worse, the cost of losing litigation. So you will likely choose D…

It’s a turnkey platform that’s ready to go for most verticals.

I helped implement a solution during the peak period of pandemic that ended up handling millions of transactions. Probably took 3 days from handshake to live.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#148

Post by acjohnson55 » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:48 AM UTC

cowpig wrote: post #80

mtlynch wrote: post #5

I haven't found free, open-source solutions, but HelloSign[0] is a decent solution if you only need to sign documents a few times per year. Their free tier supports three documents per month. They make it look like they only have paid plans, but you can sign up without a credit card for a free tier. [0] https://www.hellosign.com/

I use hellosign in my business, it works fine.

We use Hellosign at my employer for probably hundreds of thousands of docs per month. I'm neither recommending for or against them; just saying they're absolutely a viable option.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#149

Post by yellow_lead » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:49 AM UTC

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #122

yellow_lead wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, you can even sign (drawn signature) a PDF with Acrobat or Foxit or Libre, return it over email, and it's binding.

Which is why it’s infuriating when someone requires a “wet” signature - AFAIK it’s not more binding than above, so why are you forcing me to print something out, sign it and scan it?

I also wonder how they'll know. It's funny - almost like "if you cant tell it wasn't reasonable to ask in the first place."

Re: Ask HN: Why is Docusign a $50B company?

#150

Post by bubblethink » Sun, Nov 28, 2021, 1:51 AM UTC

rightisleft wrote: post #25

Unrelated to open source, but DocuSign is literally one of the examples i list when explaining why the tech sector is over bought. They've tripled their market cap since the beginning of the pandemic, and while there is some merit to work from home, their moat is laughable. There are plenty of alternatives to DocuSign that should make share holders terrified... Adobe Sign, Panda Docs, HelloSign - i wouldn't even bet…

You severely overestimate the technical ability of people and underestimate the general resistance for all things new. It's not that docusign is rocket science. But once you get various government departments and universities to use your thing, it's hard to move away. Their moat is their customer base.