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2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

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Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#131

Post by VirusNewbie »

adam_arthur wrote: post #11

While it's pretty obvious that many manufacturers are coming out with their own EVs, there seems to be something of a bubble that isn't paying attention or totally ignores this. It will be interesting to see how the EV space evolves once there are mass amounts of competitor vehicles available/on the road. Specifically interesting to see how it affects valuations for these companies. I suspect Tesla's growth rate will…

I'm curious as well, though I am slightly more bullish on Tesla. I chose one after being a lifelong BMW owner and having no interest in an electric, it was after seeing how little car I could get for 50k that had me go check out a friend's Model 3, and being very impressed. Cost of ownership is considerably less than comparable cars so far, and I've had a couple minor issues, similar to some BMWs I've had.

I agree overall fit and finish trails the luxury brands, but looking at what 70k gets you from audi is a joke compared to tesla. Clearly the other manufacturers are quite a ways behind in both battery tech and autopilot tech. If I had a 100k to spend on a car, I might pick the Porsche electric, but certainly everything else seems to fall far short of a Model 3 in that price range and I'm not aware of anything catching up soon.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#132

Post by ericd »

Marazan wrote: post #42
martythemaniak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a Model3 for three and a half years now (very early VIN). It's been our primary and for much of the time, only car. It's been fantastic, and I've recommended it to everyone, and three people I know have purchased 3s/Ys as well and have also been super satisfied. Is it flawless? No - upon delivery the read badge was missing and the glove box had a gap. Went to get it fixed. Year after that the front arms need…

My car doesn't randomly apply the brakes for no reason.

Keep in mind that the ones with radar don't really have that problem. This seems like it was a large performance regression.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#133

Post by ericd »

georgewfraser wrote: post #65

I don’t know how to square this review with my own experience of owning a Y for a year. The autopilot is nearly perfect, noticeably better than a human driver in stop and go traffic on the highway. Given the history of downright dishonest reviews by old school car people with an irrational hatred of Tesla, this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking.

The switch to vision-only seems to be the cause - I've seen reports of people with radars installed that are on the autopilot beta program which got them the vision-only autopilot deployment, and they reported that they suddenly started getting a bunch of phantom braking. Reverting back to the version with radar for those with it installed reportedly fixed it.

So people who've bought recent no-radar Teslas are having a different experience than those with older models.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#134

Post by [deleted] »

zzleeper wrote: post #114
blamazon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model X ownership is a breeze far from the Bay Area. My mom’s model X has gone in at least a dozen times and there’s never a wait for an appointment. The local service center is excellent.

> A dozen times That's what's so weird to me. I own an old 2012 Hyundai Accent, bought used at ~12k, and over the last five years I've only taken it for: - Checkup and oil change - Wheel change - Battery change But then I see all these examples of Tesla owners having to fix issue after issue after issue and saying "it's not so bad I just lost an afternoon each time going for an apt"

[deleted]

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#136

Post by adam_arthur »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #111
adam_arthur wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess a bit of both. In theory cameras should work fine, given that humans are pretty good at driving by just using our eyes. Of course vision will never be theoretically better than radar/laser. But should be good enough in the long run, and cheaper/more flexible. My question is, what level of resolution and processing power is necessary to interpret inputs accurately though? Just anecdotally, seems like aut…

A camera will never match radar range finding in adverse conditions. Those times where you'd like the safety features you're paying a premium for to actually work.

That's true, though it may be acceptable if more economical. For most geographies, very poor visibility scenarios are quite rare.

If it costs 10k more per car to support radar for example, then it's likely not worth it. If the cost difference is marginal, then I agree, may as well use whatever sensors are best.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#137

Post by dham »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

I've owned a Model X for a year. It dates from before they removed radar, so autopilot still works very well. The rest of the car, however, does not. It is the least reliable car I have ever known. I am currently tracking ten faults, and waiting for my fifth service, which could only be booked with nearly a month to wait. The most serious faults involve the car sometimes failing to start without a hard reboot first (…

> Autopilot works great

So does my $1K Open Pilot on a significantly cheaper Rav 4. Also you don't have to put hands on wheel. If you have to put your hands on wheel for adaptive cruise control you might as well just drive the car.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#138

Post by kbos87 »

I may have missed this, but did the reviewer ever definitively, clearly say the conditions under which he experienced phantom braking? Was he using autopilot, or was this automatic emergency braking engaging without autopilot engaged? Those are two very different scenarios. If it happened with autopilot engaged, I'd want to know what type of road he was driving on.

One other thing I'll throw out there - many comments here seem to chalk up the possibility of phantom braking to the fact that Tesla has moved entirely to a computer vision system in the latest model Y, and that the lack of supplemental radar couldn't possibly be effective. Subaru's Eyesight system is 100% based on computer vision (unless you are reversing), I've driven 45k miles with it using adaptive cruise control and the always-on automatic emergency braking. I've experienced a phantom alert once or twice (the car momentarily thinks it sees an obstacle, both times thick smoke from a manhole in front of the car) but I've never experienced anything like the "phantom braking" he describes.

I know I'm talking about a different manufacturer, but I think it's misinformed to say that computer vision alone can't pull this off when other manufacturers clearly have been for years.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#139

Post by dham »

shituonui wrote: post #23
LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

I've owned a Model X for a year. It dates from before they removed radar, so autopilot still works very well. The rest of the car, however, does not. It is the least reliable car I have ever known. I am currently tracking ten faults, and waiting for my fifth service, which could only be booked with nearly a month to wait. The most serious faults involve the car sometimes failing to start without a hard reboot first (…

>Autopilot works great. I don't think anyone claims otherwise on the older models. The problem is twofold: 1. They promised "Full Self Driving" and delivered ordinary driver assistance. 2. The vision-based approach just plain does not work.

> The vision-based approach just plain does not work.

No. Vision is the one and only future for self driving.

Source: Been closely following this scene for years and own a Comma 2 (Open Pilot).

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#140

Post by ericbarrett »

tdhz77 wrote: post #102
LeoPanthera wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately I've had so many different problems that Tesla has only had the opportunity to look at each one once or twice. And none of them are of the "injury/death" kind, at least as far as I know. But they keep piling up, up to ten now.

My Tesla phantom brakes me right into a highway divider and totaled my car.

That's pretty shocking. Can you share more details?
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