Re: bank transfers in Japan, TFA states that after-hours bank transfers are still in the making, but, my experience is that the 24/7 instant transfers have pretty good coverage already - recently every transfer I've made or received has arrived instantly (to like 3-4 different banks from my rural institution). Once I didn't have the cash to cover my bar tab at like 1 AM on a Saturday, but the bar took PayPay. I didn't have enough PayPay balance, but I could do a transfer from my main bank to PayPay bank and refill my balance. A lifesaver!
Bank transfers as a payment method
31–40 of 335 posts
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#32Just yesterday, I deposited money from my bank account to Coinbase via SEPA. Refreshed the Coinbase page, and it was there, ready to buy digital currency with - so, the transaction was instant, or almost so. The transfer didn’t cost me anything, and neither did it Coinbase (it seems). Coinbase seems to be positive the transaction will settle, or else it wouldn’t let me use the money immediately, right? Reversibility…
For the customer? Basically this:
> the bank basically said I can’t do that.
For the shop? I think it's mostly that software solutions are incredibly US centric (or more accurately, not EU centric enough) meaning SEPA always stays an afterthought.
I also want to mention SEPA direct debits. They're great from a the customer's perspective, especially for subscriptions and the like.
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#33When discussing Europe, you can't leave out the rise of mobile payments that work similar to India's UPI. For instance, in Sweden, "Swish"[0] has quickly taken over the market for casual payments, with free, instant, irreversible bank transfers between individuals using only the recipients phone number (or a QR code). They are a bunch of these systems, but currently they are all fractured into national systems, altho…
Tikkies are the Dutch equivalent.
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crypto currencies are great for paying people whose names and banking details you don't necessarily know. I've used them to pretty good effect to date and the fact that they have all the drawbacks of cash and are used by criminals too doesn't diminish any of that.
.. wait until you find out what cash is used for.
Or precious metals
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#35Let's adopt patio11's criteria to a programmable public blockchain, like ethereum - Customer UX: crypto wallets built into browsers and phones. Connect your wallet to any webpage to pay. Or, tap your phone to pay via a crypto payment - Certainty: crypto transactions are, by default, instant and irreversible. Any kind of chargeback scheme, refund policy, or time-delay may be built into the crypto app layer - Settlemen…
You keep saying “instant”, but in practice ethereum takes a few minutes for finality and can only handle a maximum of 50 tps. I’ll grant that both of those may improve with as zk tech matures, but even with rollups there’s no way of having better finality than ethereum, which is unlikely to ever be better than 60s
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#36This is all great if the currency between the buying and business is the same (ie, USD to USD), but still does not fix transactions between entities of different currency types. In my opinion, this is where cryptocurrency as a payment method for B2B, B2C will shine. No more dealing with foreign transaction fees and conversion fees. Plus the added benefit of not converting your money into an unstable currency (ie, Tur…
Doesn't using cryptocurrencies just mean you have even more conversion fees?
In the current reality where nobody else uses cryptocurrencies, you're going to be converting at both ends to national currencies (if anything at least to pay tax)
Even in a hypothetic crypto utopia, there's no chance that we'll get one single currency to rule them all, so you're going to have to convert every time you pay for something (every market is going to have it's own currency)
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#37Just yesterday, I deposited money from my bank account to Coinbase via SEPA. Refreshed the Coinbase page, and it was there, ready to buy digital currency with - so, the transaction was instant, or almost so. The transfer didn’t cost me anything, and neither did it Coinbase (it seems). Coinbase seems to be positive the transaction will settle, or else it wouldn’t let me use the money immediately, right? Reversibility…
According to article there is a huge amount of SEPA fraud going around because seller receives you banking details. Unauthorized direct debit maybe?
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#38Fun Fact: UPI also allows certain other interesting kinds of transactions based on "special VPAs". These include:
- IFSC code and account number combination, resolved directly by NPCI, is represented as account-no@ifsc-code.ifsc.npci (e.g. 12345@HDFC0000001.ifsc.npci)
- RuPay card number, resolved directly by NPCI, is represented as card-no@rupay.npci (e.g. 1234123412341234@rupay.npci)
The following were proposed, but didn't take off
- Aadhaar number, resolved directly by NPCI using existing Aadhaar to bank mapper, is represented as aadhaar-no@aadhaar.npci (e.g. 234567890123@aadhaar.npci)
- Mobile number, resolved directly by NPCI using proposed mobile to account mapper, is represented as mobile-no@mobile.npci (e.g. 9800011111@mobile.npci). Instead of this, many PSPs (PhonePe/BHIM most notably) ended up using mobilenumber@psp by default because of the usability benefit, and this "centralized mobile mapper" was never built afaik.
The following are implemented at some banks:
- When bank itself is the PSP, any account identifier, resolved directly by bank as the PSP, is represented as account-id@bank-psp-code (e.g. 12345678@icici)
- A one time or time/amount limited tokens issued by a PSP, resolved directly by that PSP, is represented as token@psp-code (e.g. ot123456@mypsp)
PPIs (Prepaid Payment Instrument - wallets in India) were added to the UPI system quite late, but there's very few who've actually started working. This was also in the original plan:
- A PPI provider issued card number, resolved directly by PPI provider, is represented as ppi-card-no@ppi-psp-code (e.g. 000012346789@myppi)
There's also some credit card providers that let you pay off your card by using a special VPA (cardnumber@card-issuer). See https://www.wishfin.com/credit-card-payment/how-to-pay-credi... for a list of supported issuers. Unfortunately, this makes compliance a huge hassle because every one must treat VPAs as hazardous (because they can now contain complete card numbers).
Scroll to page 20 for the complete list: https://www.mygov.in/digidhan/pages/pdf/sbi/NPCI%20Unified%2...
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#39UPI can potentially be scaled to all countries. I think the biggest USP of UPI is the interoperability between payment apps(Google Pay, Paytm, PhonePe, etc), VPAs(alice@icici, bob@axis, dan@upi, 9848123456@paytm) and banks. One could have an account with bank A, create a VPA with bank B and use that VPA to pay a business through virtually any of the payment apps(GPay, Paytm, PhonePe, BHIM, etc). The main pain point U…
I took a trip last month(within India) with about ₹600 cash and returned with ₹560, with UPI for everything from chai to flight tickets. It's just so frictionless.
UPI was built around mobile phones, and a significant part of the trust comes from the KYC that was enforced from the beginning for mobile connections. I'm not sure how well that process will scale across countries and across currencies. Still, with the international partnerships coming up, I'm excited for the possibilities that are presenting in the payments space.
Re: Bank transfers as a payment method
#40Just yesterday, I deposited money from my bank account to Coinbase via SEPA. Refreshed the Coinbase page, and it was there, ready to buy digital currency with - so, the transaction was instant, or almost so. The transfer didn’t cost me anything, and neither did it Coinbase (it seems). Coinbase seems to be positive the transaction will settle, or else it wouldn’t let me use the money immediately, right? Reversibility…
According to article there is a huge amount of SEPA fraud going around because seller receives you banking details. Unauthorized direct debit maybe?
I don't doubt there is some SEPA fraud but 'huge amount' is something that requires some proof. Personally I haven't seen a single instance and that's with all of my banking details public and many thousands of transactions per year across 10 different bank accounts (three companies, and a bunch of private accounts).