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Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

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Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#221

I cannot stand how everything with internet access is just becoming a vehicle to shove ads down everyone’s throat. This web browser wants to sell me credit deals. My expensive TV has banner ads in the menus (well, it did until I blocked about two dozen domains). An increasing amount of apps are sending “offers” I never requested via push notifications on my phone. My belongings are not a fucking corporate billboard.

> My expensive TV has banner ads in the menus Mine doesn't, because I don't plug it into the intertoobs. (I use a Roku box.)

My Roku shows ads on its home screen. Do you have an older model?

Even my Roku remote control has ads: the Netflix, Disney, Hulu, and Sling shortcut buttons that can’t be reprogrammed.

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#222

I cannot stand how everything with internet access is just becoming a vehicle to shove ads down everyone’s throat. This web browser wants to sell me credit deals. My expensive TV has banner ads in the menus (well, it did until I blocked about two dozen domains). An increasing amount of apps are sending “offers” I never requested via push notifications on my phone. My belongings are not a fucking corporate billboard.

Maintaining browsers has become a significant undertaking, so complex that only well-funded corporate interests can afford to keep one patched and up-to-date with the latest web standards. It surpassed operating system complexity. It surpassed pretty much everything else too. So we can forget about it ever being truly "free" (and free from ads) unless we simplify the web somehow. I also don't think we're going to go…

There are what, two billion people using a browser every day? Three? For some amount of time measured in hours? There is nothing that could prevent a product in that spot from becoming more sophisticated over time, and it doesn't require any corrupt "corporate interests".

The alternative does exist: you can surf the text-only web with lynx, or by reading pure HTML. Even today, most content is available via RSS as well.

Nobody wants that because the modern web is better than it used to be.

Arguably, Google's interests have been aligned with web users' for the last decade or two. Because their #1 fear is/was "walled gardens, both of the Facebook variety as well as native apps. So they need(ed) the web platform to be just as good as native applications, which is how we got joystick and USB web APIs. This is a chance of this changing because they have their own walled garden in the form of Android, but I'm not seeing it yet.

Besides, all browsers are open-source, standards support is incredibly good today compared to the past, none of them try to lock you into their Windows-only ActiveX components, they don't intercept ads and resell them in the black market (except the self-proclaimed "brave" browser)... I really don't think browsers are epitome of corruption you consider the, to be.

Microsoft's attempts to upsell you aren't really evil, they are just tasteless. Seriously: one of the features of really high end products is that they don't quite need as many flashing lights to get your attention. Apple does earn a lot of money, and it likes nothing more than selling you more stuff. But they certainly have enough self-respect not to run banner ads for third parties in their software.

(The difference is (was?) most obvious with these insane stickers ("Intel Inside", "Windows Ready") every other manufacturer had to ruin their notebooks with. But, then again, I know enough people who never took them off to suspect they don't care. Or worse.)

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#223

I cannot stand how everything with internet access is just becoming a vehicle to shove ads down everyone’s throat. This web browser wants to sell me credit deals. My expensive TV has banner ads in the menus (well, it did until I blocked about two dozen domains). An increasing amount of apps are sending “offers” I never requested via push notifications on my phone. My belongings are not a fucking corporate billboard.

Maintaining browsers has become a significant undertaking, so complex that only well-funded corporate interests can afford to keep one patched and up-to-date with the latest web standards. It surpassed operating system complexity. It surpassed pretty much everything else too. So we can forget about it ever being truly "free" (and free from ads) unless we simplify the web somehow. I also don't think we're going to go…

The browser has become the application runtime for most purposes today, including in the enterprise. It's also on the front-line for most security threats as its functionality relies on parsing & executing untrusted and potentially malicious code safely.

It's the perfect place for security features, enforcing policies and productivity improvements. The Enterprise™ spends huge amounts of money on (often dubious) security products and productivity tools and their complexity sometimes even exceeds browsers. A paid browser that offers better security, supports policies such as restrictions or data loss prevention and productivity features (such as ad blocking, reader mode, an easy automation API) would definitely have customers.

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#224

Hey, Microsoft, it's not your fucking job to serve ads. It is not your fucking job to be the middleman for payment transactions. Your only job is to provide an operating system.

The problem is we don’t pay for the operating system anymore.

I do, and then MS just keeps revoking my licenses because I change hardware, real fun user experience all this.

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#225
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can thank the capital side of the equation for this. Example: https://andrewchen.com/this-is-what-free-ad-supported-uber-r... They used to hide it, but because so much money is being made there's no point anymore.

That site is a perfect example of this. It actually required me to sign up for the newsletter to even read the article.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#226

> It allows any purchase between $35 and $1,000 made through Microsoft Edge to be split into four payments over a six-week period. > While the service is being promoted as ‘interest-free’, some were quick to point out that all transactions are subject to a “$4 flat fee”. $4 in fees on $1000 over 6 weeks is an effective APR of around 4% - pretty good. $4 in fees on $35 over 6 weeks is an outrageous APR of around 123%.…

Now web browsers are gonna become credit cards attached to your browsing history... Great job guys! :| Ugh, who ever would have thought 2021 would have come to this.

Opera started offering payday loans in Kenya a few years ago:

https://allafrica.com/stories/202104090297.html

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#227

I cannot stand how everything with internet access is just becoming a vehicle to shove ads down everyone’s throat. This web browser wants to sell me credit deals. My expensive TV has banner ads in the menus (well, it did until I blocked about two dozen domains). An increasing amount of apps are sending “offers” I never requested via push notifications on my phone. My belongings are not a fucking corporate billboard.

>my belongings

You think they are, but they aren't.

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#228
post #183
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another said, the goal to increase revenue is per team. The Edge team must likely find proof for how they will drive revenue in the future. Suddenly you've got a full browser engineering team trying to figure out how to monetize a browser - tough sell. So they can't come up with anything, that's fine because a product manager is the owner of this task anyway. They propose a myriad of different ways to monetize Edg…

Sell the default search provider to bing for a few billion dollars. Same way Firefox makes money.

Mozilla can negotiate with multiple search engines. Imagine if the Edge team tried to make Google Edge’s default search engine!

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#229

All these discussion about APR and napkin math and installment is missing the point a bit, in my opinion. My problem is not even that Edge collects unnecessary and allows what could be called a most intrusive third party add into its browser per se , I am mostly amazed by how incredibly tacky this looks and feels from Microsoft's side. Like, imagine buying a Lexus and discovering they are advertisements for a cheap o…

Yeah, this really is the most unbelievable part. Edge is a huge halo-effect opportunity for Microsoft to improve its brand among non-customers, and it looks like they’ve been seriously pursuing it with some of the interesting things they’ve been doing with dev tools. To throw all this away for a few bucks in affiliate commissions is jaw-droppingly short-sighted.

Re: Microsoft pushes ahead with controversial ‘buy now, pay later’ feature for Edge

#230

I cannot stand how everything with internet access is just becoming a vehicle to shove ads down everyone’s throat. This web browser wants to sell me credit deals. My expensive TV has banner ads in the menus (well, it did until I blocked about two dozen domains). An increasing amount of apps are sending “offers” I never requested via push notifications on my phone. My belongings are not a fucking corporate billboard.

This is what pisses me off from the tech industry and makes me want to save enough to retire and quit for good or open a non-tech business.

When I dreamed about joining the industry a decade ago I saw all these new companies offering useful & innovative products/services that actually solved real problems and legitimately made people's lives better. I wanted to be part of this world and get in on the action, making honest money in the process - I provide useful service, customer pays me money. Win-win, right?

Nowadays it seems like every tech company's goal is "engagement" and any problems they solve (or claim to solve) are only there to convince you to "engage" with the product. Even when you think you've actually found a company that has a real paid product that shouldn't (and doesn't - yet) rely on "engagement" you will always find some assholes on the inside (typically in marketing) that chase this "engagement" (and over time ruin the perfectly good product).

You could say it's capitalism's fault but I don't think so. There are other areas where completely unbounded capitalism would lead to terrible outcomes such as ponzi schemes, and yet we mostly avoid these because we have appropriate regulation to deter this behavior. The problem is that we have zero effective regulation (the GDPR doesn't count until it's enforced seriously) around misuse of personal data which powers this whole "engagement" crap.

Fortunately I think (hope) there is light at the end of the tunnel. "Engagement" only works if advertisers pay for those eyeballs which they'd only do if those ads worked and the prospective customer actually bought the advertised product. As we are already saturated in ads (and/or people deploy countermeasures such as ad-blockers) and the costs per click/impression keep dropping the bubble will hopefully pop and it will become more profitable to sell paid, premium & ad-free products like it should be.

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