Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

www2.macleans.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 123 posts

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#101

Post by schmittz »

sbuk wrote: post #89
nirvana wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Xerox invented some important technologies, such as the mouse and the idea of a windowed interface, but this was not the GUI. That was invented by Apple. The xerox interface was more akin to emacs multi-document mode, there was no desktop metaphor, no file/folders organization, no trash can, the menubar was a very different conceptualization, etc.

Xerox categorically did not invent the mouse. Doug Engelbart invented the mouse in the mid-to-late 1960s. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfIgzSoTMOs for what is described as "The Mother of All Demos". As to the GUI, again PARC then Apple innovated on the original ideas of others. Ivan Sutherland is credited ad really being the first to develop the notion of the "GUI" - again in the late 60s - with Sketchpad http:…

I'll admit at the time I posted my comment, I wasn't particularly well versed in the history of computing. Thanks for the links, they are insightful.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#102

Post by beedogs »

nirvana wrote: post #60
nitrogen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...by google fans because they want to believe that it is ok for google to rip off the iPhone and give away a counterfeit operating system. Here you go too far. You don't have to like Android, MeeGo, or any other non-Apple OS, but calling any of them counterfeit is highly inaccurate. Google isn't stealing Apple's software and repackaging it as their own. In the form of the oft-used car analogy: you're accusing Hyunda…

Google is, in fact, stealing Apple's patented inventions and repackaging it as their own. Hence the sudden flare up in "patents are all bogus and a bad idea" propaganda. Before the announcement of the iPhone the Android phones looked a whole lot like blackberries. Google didn't spend 7 years coming up with a multi-touch operating system, and the underlying technology. They spent one year copying what Apple did, right…

You really need to quit while you're far, far behind.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#103

Post by Mutek »

richcollins wrote: post #86
raganwald wrote: post #9

Somewhat related: You know how we in the startup world are constantly chanting, "It's the execution that matters, not the idea?" Well, many of the discussions around Apple seem to boil down to one person saying that Apple copied/stole the idea, or the idea was inevitable, and the other person saying "Yeah, but Apple pulled off he execution ." To the extent that all of Apple's ideas in GUIs, mobile devices, music reta…

Exactly. Apple's genius is in making technology usable, not just making technology.

usable for who? I cannot image something more usable than a simple e17 + xterm on a Debian to develop my Perl programs.. so I think your sentence must be refined, don't you?

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#104

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #59
veyron wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more subtle than that. Jobs had a preternatural ability to determine when a technology was sufficiently mature and when people were ready to accept a well-executed solution. Some would argue, for example, that Newton was executed well (but people weren't ready for it). I would imagine a lot of startups find themselves in a situation where people simply aren't ready for the solution that is brought to the table.

Newton was not only premature, it didn't fit any useful form factor (too small for a tablet, too big for a pocket device) and it didn't do anything necessary. An iPod plays music and an iPhone is a phone. Additionally, the state of Newton's handwriting recognition was immature.

[deleted]

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#105

Post by Getahobby »

nirvana wrote: post #7

I really don't understand the need to denigrate Apple. It almost seems as this spawns from an instinctive respect for the significance that Apple, and Steve Jobs specifically, have actually had. Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the t…

Apple DID NOT invent gui. When Jobs visited PARC he saw three revolutionary ideas:

GUI Networked personal computers Object Oriented Programming

Source: http://www.amazon.com/Fumbling-Future-Invented-Personal-Comp...

Seriously, that book is a must read for any person that reads this site. 3 dollars for a used copy. And Apple did not license anything GUI related from Xerox - there was a lawsuit involving the lack of licensing the technology.

You know what rubs me the wrong way? I am a geek - I love it when the geeks get the credit for making things work and the marketing people just get the credit for the shiny veneer. Woz is the geek here and I feel like he doesnt get the credit he deserves. Anybody know where Woz worked before Apple? HP - he took the risk of leaving a well established company and joined forces with Steve Jobs. I am not saying it didn't work out well for him but I think too many people forget about him and focus on the other Steve. Oh well. Oh yeah, I wrote this on my iPad and it took forever to compose. FWIW.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#106

Post by Mutek »

it proven than the integration of hardware with software it's not an option, but a must. That all the Unix world philosophy can applied to the world of GUI users, just wrap on and glue in the usable way (TimeMachine do help you remember well? and what about Versions?) They better the world of the meaning generic desktop users. Hardcore hacker developers do not care about what they do

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#107

Post by [deleted] »

Anechoic wrote: post #28
tintin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never heard about Xerox did you?

Well the question is "is the GUI that people are using today closer to the PARC GUI or closer to the Mac/Lisa GUI?" The Apple and Lisa groups were unquestionably influenced by PARC, but a lot of the innovations that are used in today's GUIs come from Apple: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...

[deleted]

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#109

Post by jleader »

nirvana wrote: post #68
nitrogen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple invented the GUI (using some ideas they licensed from Xerox), as part of a project that Steve Jobs led. The NeXT cube inspired the web to some extent and made the first browser much easier to write. Apple invented the touch UI. Hell, just listing the significant inventions of Apple is almost embarrassing because any list is going to leave so many of them off. This is why people feel the need to "denigrate" Appl…

No, people denigrate Apple because they are invested, emotionally, in a competing product and they do not want to believe that Apple did innovate as much as they have. You're right that there are a lot of serious misconceptions about the history of computing, but they are all on the side of the people who claim that products that came after Apple's products are proof that Apple didn't invent the category, etc. As for…

If Apple "invented" the GUI by commercializing some ideas that started at Xerox, how is it that the Xerox Star was released before the Lisa?

Now, the Macintosh was a far more impressive execution of those ideas than either of its predecessors, but to say Apple "invented" the GUI, and to downplay Xerox's contribution, is unfair.

I'm not saying this because I'm "invested" in any product or company; I owned a 512-K Mac, I covet my wife's MacBook Plus, but I don't find identification with any particular company's fictional narrative a useful way of discussing technology or history.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#110

Post by quanticle »

nirvana wrote: post #70
raganwald wrote: post #9

Somewhat related: You know how we in the startup world are constantly chanting, "It's the execution that matters, not the idea?" Well, many of the discussions around Apple seem to boil down to one person saying that Apple copied/stole the idea, or the idea was inevitable, and the other person saying "Yeah, but Apple pulled off he execution ." To the extent that all of Apple's ideas in GUIs, mobile devices, music reta…

You're right that the execution, which involves taking an idea thru the difficulty of solving all of its problems to fruition is what really matters. However, the problem is that after Apple does this, and then everyone and their dog copies it, a few years later, people pretend like it wasn't Apple who actually had the idea, developed it, solved all the problems and then brought it to market! Its as if, because there…

I agree that Apple develops and polishes ideas to an impeccable degree. But to say that Apple had original ideas is grossly overstating the truth.

Laptops existed before Powerbooks. MP3 players existed before the iPod. Smartphones (remember Handspring?) existed before the iPhone. In fact, one could argue that Apple is amongst the last into a market for a good reason: being last allows you to learn from the mistakes of others and see which approaches are dead-ends.

The early bird might get the worm, but its the second mouse that gets the cheese.

Post reply on HN