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Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

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Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#41
post #3

Ah! The “classic” ligature issue. Have been following that for a while. Kind of given up hope that there will ever be any support for it. Edit: punctuation

> The “classic” ligature issue.

We try to make our terminals do things no terminal (remember those boxes with a CRT that used to be in a room, then became ubiquitous enough to end up on our desks) ever did, or considered doing. Do I enjoy being able to partition a window without needing tmux? Yes. Do I like text reflowing when I resize the window? Sure. Do I find Tektronix mode useful? No. Do I find it fun? Of course!

We all are passionate about some thing or another (I, for instance, maintain an IBM 3278-2-like terminal font), but I have to agree that, when someone says my suggestion for adding smooth scrolling or double width/height attributes to VTE (I promised to add Tek support to it, but, like so many other side projects, I didn't have the time to start it) is niche or, worse, a Terrible Idea, they are not doing that out of cruelty, but from a position of "I'll have to maintain this idea only you like forever", and, in their place, I'd probably do the same (as I have in the past with `pip-chill` (another thing I maintain), when I think an idea is not great).

OTOH, from the other side, I'd love to see https://github.com/urwid/urwid/pull/434 merged :-(

And, of course, having https://github.com/htop-dev/htop/pull/736 shot down was disappointing, but understandable.

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#42

A lot of their comments seem justified though and it looks like you were learning a lot from it as you mentioned it was your first rust merge. Also a lot of the delay was because you didn't have time to work on it as you mentioned in 2019 :) I'm not a developer but I read through the thread to see what it's about. But I think most comments were constructive criticism or just non blocking suggestions even. Though code…

It's the author of 8chan, so libel is not surprising here.

Bennan has since repudiated 8chan and has fought for it to be taken offline. Let's not judge him too harshly.

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#45

Posts like this are major contributors to maintainer burnout. Whatever value they have as a signal boost is a rounding error compared to the harm they cause to individuals as well as to the culture as a whole. Please don't ever post things like this. If you're this frustrated that the people who make free things for you aren't donating their time to you in the way you'd prefer, grab a drink with a friend and vent to…

As I maintainter myself, I completely disagree. It's a fair complaint that everyone contributing to open source will eventually suffer from.

> Please don't ever post things like this.

What the hell, is this against any HN policy? Or you think no one should post their point of view here if it's against yours?

EDIT: I think it's important to note that burnout is a result of you having an issue within yourself (at least in the context of voluntary projects), it's not something others do to you... you can choose to ignore all pull requests, for example, or say in your README that you won't accept any (I've done that myself to projects I wanted to keep in a certain "permanent" state for reasons). If you choose to engage in discussions, that's your call.

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#46
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the author of 8chan, so libel is not surprising here.

Bennan has since repudiated 8chan and has fought for it to be taken offline. Let's not judge him too harshly.

No, he didn't fight for it. He sold that site - that’s all. When he had the power to stop GamerGate imageboards - he didn't. When he could remove boards with CP - he didn't. What I wrote is far from “judging him too harshly” :)

He only apologized for not removing the shooter's manifests. He didn't apologize for GamerGate, CP, racism, neo-nazism, and other terrible things. His words about the 8chan shutdown - “I was not even that upset about that” [1]. You can’t call it “fighting”.

[1] https://jacobinmag.com/2021/04/fredrick-brennan-8chan-intern...

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#47

Posts like this are major contributors to maintainer burnout. Whatever value they have as a signal boost is a rounding error compared to the harm they cause to individuals as well as to the culture as a whole. Please don't ever post things like this. If you're this frustrated that the people who make free things for you aren't donating their time to you in the way you'd prefer, grab a drink with a friend and vent to…

Nope, sorry. Maintainers are not above criticism just like anyone else, and this post did so in a respectful way. It’s a real problem and e.g. the reason we have stopped trying to upstream any fixes to OSS libraries at work - it’s in no way worth the effort to jump through these hoops, take our bugfix or leave it.

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#48
The "Art of Rejecting pull requests" is hard.

read more:

"Polite Technology

This is a book about the social interactions and situations that are the underpinnings of the open source world. It's about how humans collaboratively create software."

https://polite.technology/preview

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#49
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people treat the merge of a PR as their god-given right. Because they spent time on it. But if they spent the time without discussing with the maintainer first, why would they be obliged to merge it ? It is like spending a ton of money on a big, bulky, but useless to a recipient present, giving it to someone and then complaining that they don’t take it - you had spent all this money! The way out of t…

>I think a lot of people treat the merge of a PR as their god-given right I've never seen this at work or in open source, and I've done quite a bit of open source. Contributors will get frustrated if their PR is simply ignored and I think for good reason. But I've never seen anyone say or even imply that their PR must be merged.

I am judging it by the comments.

I have been on both sides of this situation over the years, but it was never too extreme.

On the maintainer side: I have a small project that has picked up some pace recently, though is still rather small, and there has been only two situations where i said “this feature is not going in no matter what”. Because it will increase my burden as a maintainer and main author.

On the contributor side: If the maintainer in a timely fashion suggests some changes that seem reasonable, I am happy to spend the time doing them. Often they will give an “outside” view that will make a patch better.

Sometimes I saw them being quite selective about what they want to merge, whereas for me “just that bit” solves a real need and I see the request as too much work - then I just leave my fork as is and use that for what I needed. I see their rationale, and I am thankful for what they have done. And I leave my modifications in the fork in case someone needs them or wants to pick them up and improve.

The freedom with open source always should go both ways.

Re: Rust maintainer perfectionism, or, the tragedy of Alacritty (2020)

#50
post #6

I think many developers treat PRs as an opportunity to gatekeep. I'm not a very politically correct or emotional person but I think gatekeeping/nitpicking is extremely demotivating and it should be avoided wherever possible. When I review PRs, I'm looking at the big picture. I'm looking to see if it introduces security issues or diverges from standard practice. I don't care if there's a slightly better way which redu…

The whole point of PRs is to gatekeep. They are there to enforce that the change is consistent with the owner's standards.
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