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As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

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Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#251

Post by rayiner »

random314 wrote: post #250
rayiner wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What 'cultures' are you talking about? By far the most successful in human history have been modern democratic cultures which, very broadly speaking, focus on freedom. Not for kids, which is what we’re talking about here. Read Roald Dahl’s books about British education. That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history. “Freedom” for kids, as opposed to rigid socialization, is a mid-20th century detour.…

> That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history. Which created the 3rd world via colonialism. For reference the Mughal empire that generated 25% of the worlds GDP, or any of the great Chinese empires definitely didn't involve colonialism, famines and death and the creation of the poorest colonial economies in the world to demonstrate their greatness.

> Which created the 3rd world via colonialism. For reference the Mughal empire that generated 25% of the worlds GDP

C’mon, you know why people formulate this point like that, and not like, “Mughal empire GDP decreased 50% after colonialism.”

Between 1000 AD and 1600 AD, British GDP per capita doubled. During that time, Indian GDP per capita increased only 20%. Before European contact, India, China, etc., were stuck at pre-industrial revolution levels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(P...

By the time the Brits got there, Indian GDP per capita was only half as much as Britain’s. The odds that India would have entered an industrial revolution around that same time after centuries of being stuck in the same place is low.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(P...

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#252

Post by rayiner »

nec4b wrote: post #249
rayiner wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What 'cultures' are you talking about? By far the most successful in human history have been modern democratic cultures which, very broadly speaking, focus on freedom. Not for kids, which is what we’re talking about here. Read Roald Dahl’s books about British education. That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history. “Freedom” for kids, as opposed to rigid socialization, is a mid-20th century detour.…

>> Read Roald Dahl’s books about British education. Could you please recommend a specific book for those of us who are interested?

His autobiography is great. Boy.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#253

Post by FundementalBrit »

ausbah wrote: post #217
FundementalBrit wrote: post #92

The British government has a vague law on books which incite terroism... Of course they couldn't actually write an actual list because the book at the top of the list would be problematic.

which would be...?

Yes it would be the Quran, Plenty of Islamic terrorists have cited from it. But of course if you were to ban it then you get into a quagmire of religious freedoms.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#254

Post by UncleMeat »

cik2e wrote: post #161
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the context of those images? It seems perfectly appropriate for highschool.

I've seen people downplaying the contents book using arguments like "these kids are already looking at porn, so who cares?" Whatever, I don't have an issue with that. Been there, done that. But how about this one? What if you're one of the many kids who want to but can't get laid in high school? Seeing teenage sex normalized by the school itself could lead to all kinds of additional insecurities.

Does it normalize it? Lots of art contains sex, even explicit sex and representations of rape. Having some event be part of somebody’s story does not automatically promote that activity.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#255

Post by ffggvv »

aspenmayer wrote: post #220
ffggvv wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to mention the same people in a huff over this are burning and banning dr seuss and huckleberry finn and tearing down statues of the founding fathers as racist.

Is there any debate about the founding fathers avowed racism, even under the historical standards of their time? What has changed, in the interim, is the social acceptability of racism, public or private. This shift away from racist beliefs or acts is an unqualified social good. Of course, you’re free to belief that the founding fathers weren’t racist, but I don’t think that there is much writing by them to that effe…

i didn’t say they weren’t. i said the same people crying about book banning in this case are the most prolific censors themselves

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#256

Post by random314 »

rayiner wrote: post #251
random314 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history. Which created the 3rd world via colonialism. For reference the Mughal empire that generated 25% of the worlds GDP, or any of the great Chinese empires definitely didn't involve colonialism, famines and death and the creation of the poorest colonial economies in the world to demonstrate their greatness.

> Which created the 3rd world via colonialism. For reference the Mughal empire that generated 25% of the worlds GDP C’mon, you know why people formulate this point like that, and not like, “Mughal empire GDP decreased 50% after colonialism.” Between 1000 AD and 1600 AD, British GDP per capita doubled. During that time, Indian GDP per capita increased only 20%. Before European contact, India, China, etc., were stuck a…

Your own links show Mughal GDP per capita at 700$+ in 1600, china at 800$+, a level that wasn't approached by UK until late 1800s and most of Europe until 1900s.

Britain started dominating India in the 1700s and got almost complete domination by 1819 by finishing off the last Indian hold out - the maratha kingdom.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Anglo-Maratha_War

India's economic decline coincides with colonialism and does not precede it, the opposite of what you suggest.

If you are going to disagree with virtually every economist that colonialism destroyed the economies of virtually every colony while siphoning off a lot of wealth to Europe, you will have to do better than post links that contradict your own statements.

By any dimension of comparison the Mughal and contemporaneous Chinese empires were superior to any colonial empires that followed - be it economic output, lack of hunger and famine, or colonial deindustrialization. The British empire was one of the largest setbacks to World GDP ever, as demonstrated by the information you yourself posted.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#257

Post by kwhitefoot »

FundementalBrit wrote: post #92

The British government has a vague law on books which incite terroism... Of course they couldn't actually write an actual list because the book at the top of the list would be problematic.

What book would that be?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#259

Post by rayiner »

random314 wrote: post #256
rayiner wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which created the 3rd world via colonialism. For reference the Mughal empire that generated 25% of the worlds GDP C’mon, you know why people formulate this point like that, and not like, “Mughal empire GDP decreased 50% after colonialism.” Between 1000 AD and 1600 AD, British GDP per capita doubled. During that time, Indian GDP per capita increased only 20%. Before European contact, India, China, etc., were stuck a…

Your own links show Mughal GDP per capita at 700$+ in 1600, china at 800$+, a level that wasn't approached by UK until late 1800s and most of Europe until 1900s. Britain started dominating India in the 1700s and got almost complete domination by 1819 by finishing off the last Indian hold out - the maratha kingdom. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Anglo-Maratha_War India's economic decline coincides with colonial…

> Your own links show Mughal GDP per capita at 700$+ in 1600, china at 800$+, a level that wasn't approached by UK until late 1800s and most of Europe until 1900s.

Which one are you looking at? I’m looking at the 1–2008 AD chart, which shows Britain at 975 in 1600 and India and China at 550 and 600.

India and China were clearly stalled at a pre-industrial level of development before the British came, while the British were on a sharp upward trajectory.

You’re also overlooking the counterfactual. What would’ve been India’s level of development if the British had never went there? It might still be pre-industrial.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#260

Post by tenebrisalietum »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #208
tenebrisalietum wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who determines what is 'correct'? The kids' parents. > When do they learn this correct way? The kids' parents. > How do they learn? From their parents. After all the child belongs to the parents so they get to make these decisions.

In that case, why have schools at all? The parents are apparently omnipotent and can handle instruction, no?

Some parents homeschool.
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