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What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

economist.com

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Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#241

Post by FooBarWidget »

mthoms wrote: post #144
FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

>Censorship in China is not about removing posts that criticize the government. Censorship is applied equally on praises and criticisms of the state. Can you provide any examples where praise of the government (CCP) was "censored"?

From the paper I linked, section "Content of Censored and Uncensored Posts", here's one example:

> we now highlight the obverse condition by giving examples of two posts related to events with collective action potential that support the state but which nevertheless were quickly censored. During the bombings in Fuzhou, the government censored this post, which unambiguously condemns the actions of Qian Mingqi, the bomber, and explicitly praises the government’s work on the issues of housing demolition, which precipitated the bombings:

> “The bombing led not only to the tragedy of his death but the death of many government workers. Even if we can verify what Qian Mingqi said on Weibo that the building demolition caused a great deal of personal damage, we should still condemn his extreme act of retribution.... The government has continually put forth measures and laws to protect the interests of citizens in building demolition. And the media has called attention to the plight of those experiencing housing demolition. The rate at which compensation for housing demolition has increased exceeds inflation. In many places, this compensation can change the fate of an entire family.”

---

A more recent example. Jerry Grey is a Canadian who lives in China and who opposes the Xinjiang narrative in western mainstream media because he has travelled to Xinjiang and saw a different reality than described in the media.

On Chinese social media he posted a criticism of Adrien Zenz, one of the people pushing the genocide narrative. Grey's criticism was that Zenz has never been to Xinjiang, and Grey says that Zenz should go and take a look. This was then censored, because "it's not China's place to encourage other's to change their minds".

https://twitter.com/Jerry_grey2002/status/131872917977329664...

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#242

Post by bardan »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #236
twojacobtwo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should reflect on how much effort you spend defending such a regime all over this website (...) Wow, you're right about that. I thought you might have been saying it as an offhand comment, but I just looked through the 4 most recent pages of FooBarWidget's comments and only 2 comments of those listed were not directly defending or espousing CCP talking points. Potential shill? edit: Their earlier comments have…

Yes I am speaking about China a lot lately. Because I am Chinese, I care about the subject a lot, and the whole Cold War and all the media lies have made me angry and pushed me to speak up. You don't have to agree with me. But please don't say silly things like that I am a paid shill or that I don't belive what I say. I will remind you that I have a job. If you are not open to my arguments then don't listen to me. No…

Why, in your opinion, was her name censored on the PRC Internet? Why have international broadcasts in China been dropping out when her case is mentioned? Why did the CCP deny any knowledge of her situation, only to later say "she will be making a public appearance soon"?

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#243

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

hogFeast wrote: post #212
pphysch wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the "doublethink" in pointing out the paradox in distrusting your government yet trusting everything they say about a foreign government? You do realize that "trusted" "unbiased" media outlets like the Reuters, AP, NYT, WaPo literally have State Department/Pentagon censors filtering any material that could be deemed sensitive to "national security"?

I am baffled how this makes sense to you. You are complaining about the State Department censoring news but imply that the CCP which literally controls all information isn't as bad? Again, you realise that the US being as bad as China doesn't make China good? And, again, the doublethink is being unable to understand that the question of whether you have to trust government makes no sense in the US. You don't have to…

> The point I am making is that people are unable to sceptical in China because they have no choice, the question you are posing makes no sense in a US context.

This is staggeringly naive.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#244

Post by FooBarWidget »

Manuel_D wrote: post #148
FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

> Fan Bingbing is a good case. Jack Ma is another case. In all these cases, the person in question is not in danger in the sense of being tortured in a prison. It's taking in for questioning with a gag order (and depending on the severity of the case, a house arrest) until it's over Being put under house arrest and prevented from having contact with the outside world by the government, without being charged with a cr…

> I believe that you earnestly feel this is an okay thing for the CCP to do

This is a wrong characterization.

China has different values and practices. Freedom means something different in China than in the west. China values other things more than western-style freedom of speech. For example there is a greater emphasis on responsibility.

The practice you quoted is unacceptable in the west. That's fine — for you. Chinese think differently and believe that such practices are sometimes necessary to prevent rumors from running wild and causing social instability. That's also fine — for them.

I just want you to know that Chinese genuinely have a different opinion and a different perspective. That you disagree with them is fine.

To each their own. The Chinese way would work disastrously in the west. The western way would work disastrously in China. Let each country decide what they value and how they want to do things.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#245

Post by FooBarWidget »

petre wrote: post #164
FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

> One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Why would she put herself and her family in danger to do that? She's basically at the age of retirement in her career. What do you think she'll do after she retires, with the CCP denying her further career prospects?

Well I, and many other Chinese people, don't think that "CPP will deny her further career aspects". We'll see in a few weeks whether she continues playing tennis.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#246

Post by FooBarWidget »

post_from_work wrote: post #225
burntbridge wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why should we as Westerners actually care? The majority of people in China are happy with their Government.

>>>But why should we as Westerners actually care? Because the CCP has built a blue-water Navy, which it continues to expand, with the stated goal of dethroning the US as the global hegemon? https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/china-ar... https://www.amazon.com/Unrestricted-Warfare-Chinas-Destroy-A... https://sg.news.yahoo.com/china-seeks-become-worlds-next-025... Because the CCP conducts influence ope…

Influence operations... such as this? https://twitter.com/manyapan/status/1454346638596743173

This is the typical level of Chinese influence operation. I really don't know why you're worried about it.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#247

Post by bardan »

sudosysgen wrote: post #211
Tostino wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's not kosher here to accuse others of shilling, but you are acting like it doesn't happen. It absolutely does, all the time. Less on HN than other social media, maybe, but this place is far from immune.

I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though. As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.

I have personally noted a large quantity of CCP propaganda turning up on other social media. Voted up unusually high, unusually early, and by accounts that regularly wind up banned by the admins. As a normal user it can be hard to differentiate real shill accounts from motivated nationalists and/or supremacists, but it's absurd to say this sort of thing isn't likely going on, certainly not to claim any absolute knowledge of the subject.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#248

Post by FooBarWidget »

bardan wrote: post #242
FooBarWidget wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I am speaking about China a lot lately. Because I am Chinese, I care about the subject a lot, and the whole Cold War and all the media lies have made me angry and pushed me to speak up. You don't have to agree with me. But please don't say silly things like that I am a paid shill or that I don't belive what I say. I will remind you that I have a job. If you are not open to my arguments then don't listen to me. No…

Why, in your opinion, was her name censored on the PRC Internet? Why have international broadcasts in China been dropping out when her case is mentioned? Why did the CCP deny any knowledge of her situation, only to later say "she will be making a public appearance soon"?

First I want to know whether you genuinely want to know my opinion, or whether these are some sort of rethorical questions.

After all, I see that you are worried about "shills" and "propaganda". If you are not open to alternative perspectives then there's no need to talk to me. We can agree to disagree and still respect each other.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#249

Post by FooBarWidget »

sudosysgen wrote: post #182
twojacobtwo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should reflect on how much effort you spend defending such a regime all over this website (...) Wow, you're right about that. I thought you might have been saying it as an offhand comment, but I just looked through the 4 most recent pages of FooBarWidget's comments and only 2 comments of those listed were not directly defending or espousing CCP talking points. Potential shill? edit: Their earlier comments have…

That's perfectly normal. If you're going to be accused of being a shill you might as well silo your accounts into one for serious matter and one everyone is going to adhominem into extinction.

I am using my one and only account. I made a concious decision to that so people can verify my identify and 20-year long Internet history so that they can't just call me a "paid shill".

You don't have to agree with me but please don't paint me as being insincere.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#250

Post by FatalLogic »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #232
pphysch wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is that?

It is a radically nationalist pro-China forum to the point where they regularly push anti-US conspiracy theories and regular usage of words like "Amerikkka".

>It is a radically nationalist pro-China forum to the point where they regularly push anti-US conspiracy theories and regular usage of words like "Amerikkka".

The person you're replying to is an occasional poster to that subreddit, who surely knows this already

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