What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule • Hacker News Board

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#211

Post by sudosysgen » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:27 AM UTC

Tostino wrote: post #208

sudosysgen wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's perfectly normal. If you're going to be accused of being a shill you might as well silo your accounts into one for serious matter and one everyone is going to adhominem into extinction.

I know it's not kosher here to accuse others of shilling, but you are acting like it doesn't happen. It absolutely does, all the time. Less on HN than other social media, maybe, but this place is far from immune.

I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though.

As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#212

Post by hogFeast » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #198

hogFeast wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, the doublethink is amazing. My point is precisely that people in democracies are not forced to trust the govt. They don't have to trust the media, they are totally free. The only context in which your logic makes sense is one in which you believe the govt controls truth. You are living in a mental prison that you created.

Where is the "doublethink" in pointing out the paradox in distrusting your government yet trusting everything they say about a foreign government? You do realize that "trusted" "unbiased" media outlets like the Reuters, AP, NYT, WaPo literally have State Department/Pentagon censors filtering any material that could be deemed sensitive to "national security"?

I am baffled how this makes sense to you.

You are complaining about the State Department censoring news but imply that the CCP which literally controls all information isn't as bad? Again, you realise that the US being as bad as China doesn't make China good?

And, again, the doublethink is being unable to understand that the question of whether you have to trust government makes no sense in the US. You don't have to trust the govt, that is freedom. Indeed, the US govt is constructed on the principle of multiple sources of power so it doesn't even make sense to say that authority arises from one source, there are competing sources of power (ironically, this is what the CCP finds incomprehensible about the US). The US govt does not censor the internet, most of the news sources you cite are not "trusted", people are sceptical of the media, people are sceptical of the govt. The point I am making is that people are unable to sceptical in China because they have no choice, the question you are posing makes no sense in a US context.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#213

Post by tomatofarmer » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #211

Tostino wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's not kosher here to accuse others of shilling, but you are acting like it doesn't happen. It absolutely does, all the time. Less on HN than other social media, maybe, but this place is far from immune.

I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though. As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.

He may not be a paid shill, but he is not arguing from a position of sincerity. FooBarWidget is far too intelligent to actually believe half of what he's saying, especially his claim that 98% of Chinese citizens are happy with their government. That number is absurdly high.

For reference, trust in government is 84% in Switzerland (highest in the OECD), 65% in Germany, 46% in the US, 42% in Japan, 35% in the UK.

Even if the source of the claim is the WaPo, such an outlier deserves extreme scrutiny.

https://data.oecd.org/gga/trust-in-government.htm

Edit: Those conducting the survey probably experienced reactions similar to this: https://vimeo.com/44078865

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#214

Post by sudosysgen » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

tomatofarmer wrote: post #213

sudosysgen wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it happens in the abstract. They're definitely not a shill though. As far as we've seen China has no shill operation outside of its borders outside of bots and some vote manipulation by Chinese companies for profit.

He may not be a paid shill, but he is not arguing from a position of sincerity. FooBarWidget is far too intelligent to actually believe half of what he's saying, especially his claim that 98% of Chinese citizens are happy with their government. That number is absurdly high. For reference, trust in government is 84% in Switzerland (highest in the OECD), 65% in Germany, 46% in the US, 42% in Japan, 35% in the UK. Even…

I agree that 98% is too high, but 90% is not unreasonable. There is no country in the world off the top of my head where the quality of life has improved more than in China.

Additionally the Chinese government has a very skillful tactic where they make the local government much more accountable via the central government but charges it of all the unpopular things. That way it gets credit for the good while the local government is blamed for the bad. It's quite smart actually.

His data probably comes from this research : https://ash.harvard.edu/publications/understanding-ccp-resil...

The data comes from in-person interviews. One may think that they were scared of saying bad things but plenty of negative feedback was received, they just reported that most issues were solved and were happy with the progress.

I the conclusion of dishonesty was much too quick.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#215

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #214

tomatofarmer wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may not be a paid shill, but he is not arguing from a position of sincerity. FooBarWidget is far too intelligent to actually believe half of what he's saying, especially his claim that 98% of Chinese citizens are happy with their government. That number is absurdly high. For reference, trust in government is 84% in Switzerland (highest in the OECD), 65% in Germany, 46% in the US, 42% in Japan, 35% in the UK. Even…

I agree that 98% is too high, but 90% is not unreasonable. There is no country in the world off the top of my head where the quality of life has improved more than in China. Additionally the Chinese government has a very skillful tactic where they make the local government much more accountable via the central government but charges it of all the unpopular things. That way it gets credit for the good while the local…

[deleted]

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#216

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

hogFeast wrote: post #212

pphysch wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the "doublethink" in pointing out the paradox in distrusting your government yet trusting everything they say about a foreign government? You do realize that "trusted" "unbiased" media outlets like the Reuters, AP, NYT, WaPo literally have State Department/Pentagon censors filtering any material that could be deemed sensitive to "national security"?

I am baffled how this makes sense to you. You are complaining about the State Department censoring news but imply that the CCP which literally controls all information isn't as bad? Again, you realise that the US being as bad as China doesn't make China good? And, again, the doublethink is being unable to understand that the question of whether you have to trust government makes no sense in the US. You don't have to…

[deleted]

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#217

Post by burntbridge » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 3:03 AM UTC

Manuel_D wrote: post #148

FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

> Fan Bingbing is a good case. Jack Ma is another case. In all these cases, the person in question is not in danger in the sense of being tortured in a prison. It's taking in for questioning with a gag order (and depending on the severity of the case, a house arrest) until it's over Being put under house arrest and prevented from having contact with the outside world by the government, without being charged with a cr…

But why should we as Westerners actually care? The majority of people in China are happy with their Government.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#218

Post by burntbridge » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 3:06 AM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #152

I don’t know about others, or it’s intentional, but I’m really getting tired of hearing about bad news coming from China. I felt the same when Trump was running America. Now he is gone, my life is a bit nicer. China though, it doesn’t stop.

The intensity certainly seems to be ramping up, something that really concerns me as far as World peace is concerned.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#219

Post by pphysch » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

barney54 wrote: post #201

pphysch wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to lie to paint the USA in an bad light. Socioeconomic conditions here have been in decline for half a century, and greatly accelerated in the last 13 years. Foreign policy has been failure after failure. PRC however has been on the opposite trajectory, a meteoric rise in the living conditions of the average person over just a few generations. So you do have to lie/omit to paint China in a uniformly ne…

What numbers are you looking at to say the US has been in socioeconomic decline?

Is that a rhetorical question?

# of American adults living with their parents

Average indebtedness of college graduates

Unrestrained corporations causing opioid crisis, political polarization, drop in productivity...

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#220

Post by pphysch » Fri, Nov 26, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

hogFeast wrote: post #212

pphysch wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is the "doublethink" in pointing out the paradox in distrusting your government yet trusting everything they say about a foreign government? You do realize that "trusted" "unbiased" media outlets like the Reuters, AP, NYT, WaPo literally have State Department/Pentagon censors filtering any material that could be deemed sensitive to "national security"?

I am baffled how this makes sense to you. You are complaining about the State Department censoring news but imply that the CCP which literally controls all information isn't as bad? Again, you realise that the US being as bad as China doesn't make China good? And, again, the doublethink is being unable to understand that the question of whether you have to trust government makes no sense in the US. You don't have to…

Both Chinese and Americans are more or less equally propagandized, the difference is that the Americans don't know it.

In China you know that whatever is getting media traction has been de facto approved by the Party. In America you have virtually no idea which special interest group is currently lying to you through the media, and they will never be held accountable.