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What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

economist.com

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Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#171

Post by pphysch »

hogFeast wrote: post #109
pphysch wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now why would I think that? > When the Chinese do it, it’s propaganda. When Washington does it, it’s “investing in our values”. The last phrase is taken from the Strategic Competition Act of 2021, newly passed by the United States Senate and will soon become law. It aims squarely at China and enjoys bipartisan support. Surely no trusted journalist would publish objective nonsense for a slice of that $300,000,000 prop…

It is truly bizarre to me that someone who is taking a very pro-CCP stance will justify this with reference to propaganda that other nations create...it is really something. Every nation creates propaganda, every nation does not have media controlled by the state, every nation does not have massive propaganda departments that are present at all levels of society...they aren't equivalent, the only reason to draw the e…

It is truly bizarre when people trick themselves into the paradox of "I don't trust Government 1 but I trust everything they or their crony media says about Government 2"

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#172

Post by yeetman21 »

mthoms wrote: post #144
FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

>Censorship in China is not about removing posts that criticize the government. Censorship is applied equally on praises and criticisms of the state. Can you provide any examples where praise of the government (CCP) was "censored"?

When the CIA bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. Chinese people were mad and going around in pro government/ anti-US riots and tried to storm the embassy/ consulates in Beijing and other cities. The government shutdown the subways and public transportation and enacted some degree of censorship in the state controlled news. (This was in '99 before widespread adoption of the internet)

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#173

Post by justicezyx »

ginko wrote: post #83
justicezyx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This does not reveal anything more than what Lewinsky revealed about the US voting politics. They reveal the characteristics of how 2 systems play out the sexual scandal. Of course, the actual revealed facts are different.

So you do agree that it DID reveal something after all? Maybe not to you since you're more privy to how these things are handled in China, but maybe to Western readers.

Yep, my original writing is dismissive to emphasize the similarities between this and the Clinton case.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#174

Post by jjcc »

vore wrote: post #108
msoad wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why a comment like this is posted here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344355

I'm not personally a supporter of the CCP, but I do interact with people who are. For those who are immigrants from mainland China who support the CCP, there's an element of patriotism with regards to seeing their country becoming a burgeoning superpower and as a form of comeuppance for national shame that stretches all the way back to the unequal treaties during the era of the Qing dynasty. For people born and raise…

I think your interpretation is quite simplified. Yes there is some "element of patriotism" but it's enhanced by something else. Let me explain.

homo sapiens are born to have defects that their brains can not differentiate model of their neural network and data (i.e. fact). The people from China have more data or ground facts compare to the Westerners who get all the information from media. There's a quite big discrepancy (There are some reasons but beyond the scope). What happened quite often is their perception of unfairness. More specific: The western media lied in a very tricky way so almost the whole western are brainwashed. Please note: that's somehow popular perceptions.

But the perception is also mixed and dynamic.

For the dynamic part: Today's popular perception was not popular 15 or 20 years ago. The perception has been changing gradually because the neural networks are fed with new data so the weights are changing and models i.e. opinions are changing. Especially young generation who have better neural plasticity.

For the mixed part: There are quite portion of anti CPP opinions. You can easily find many anti CPP people from China. Some are quite extreme. You can say it's somehow polarized. Even within China the portion of anti CPP is quite sizable.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#175

Post by __s »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #126
__s wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't know context of joke here, so looked it up: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/11/jamie-dimon-quickly-... The quotation seems to be garbled in that link, https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/jamie-dimon-jokes-jpmorgan... has one that makes more sense > The Communist Party is celebrating its 100th year. So is JPMorgan. And I’ll make you a bet we last longer. Tho second link isn't a citation for: > I can’t say th…

"Didn't know context of joke here" Why are people referring to it as a joke? He may have said it in a jocular tone-of-voice, but I don't think it was a joke at all: it's a reasoned statement to make and furthermore it's a statement I agree with: given US blue-chip companies' propensity to entrench themselves and the CCP's reversion back to authoritarianism (which history has made abundantly clear: rarely ends-well fo…

1. As I stated, I didn't know anything about this, so I'm using language chosen by those before me on topic

2. You're explaining why this "joke" might be taken serious by CCP

3. Most jokes have a hint of truth to them

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#176

Post by paisawalla »

igorkraw wrote: post #93
adriand wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps women are also better at speaking truth to power.

I can't help but wonder this myself, although I don't think it is safe/easy to say this with confidence - but if you look at Jane Jacobs, Hannah Arendt, Simone Weil, Rosa Luxemburg, Chelsea Manning and others, I sometimes think about whether being in the historically weaker societal role sharpens your insight and moral cohones. I don't believe there's enough evidence to say it's there, but I would buy a story that we…

Manning was a man when he became a whistleblower.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#177

Post by monkeybutton »

outside1234 wrote: post #136
ipnon wrote: post #24

There is no Streisand effect on the dark side of the Great Firewall. There, a scandal has a short lifespan. It is hard for the censors to prevent its birth, but its progeny, the discussion and the aftereffects, are easily nipped with keyword blocking and disabling comments. What effects does this have on Chinese society? What happens when the only public scandals are those that are convenient for the government?

Wait until an Olympic Athlete wears a "Where is Peng?" shirt.

"Who's Peng?"

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#178

Post by frabbit »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #122
spinny wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

laowhy86, serpentza

Here's why both of them are not reliable sources: https://twitter.com/DanielDumbrill/status/145210963079286784...

In addition there was a marked change in tone from when they were in China. I subscribed and enjoyed that content and the two Exploring documentaries. Really good content.

When they left China it started to sound like highly personalized hate speech. I initially assumed that it was because they were upset at having their livelihoods up-ended and a sense of rejection. But... initially they had great plans for wide-ranging travel documentaries which did not seem to pan out ... so it seems like the next-best thing is Five Minutes Hate against our enemies in East Asia.

Sad to see them degenerate, but not living there now they are not much of a source of information.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#179

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

__s wrote: post #175
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Didn't know context of joke here" Why are people referring to it as a joke? He may have said it in a jocular tone-of-voice, but I don't think it was a joke at all: it's a reasoned statement to make and furthermore it's a statement I agree with: given US blue-chip companies' propensity to entrench themselves and the CCP's reversion back to authoritarianism (which history has made abundantly clear: rarely ends-well fo…

1. As I stated, I didn't know anything about this, so I'm using language chosen by those before me on topic 2. You're explaining why this "joke" might be taken serious by CCP 3. Most jokes have a hint of truth to them

> You're explaining why this "joke" might be taken serious by CCP

Actually, I'm not.

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