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As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

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Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#241

Post by naasking »

danielvaughn wrote: post #173
naasking wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development Frankly, we have little real idea what's psychologically appropriate for kids. Consider that over 65% of papers in psychology fail replication. I would be very skeptical of anyone claiming they know what's psychologically good for anyone.

You're probably right, but nonetheless, the original commenter's point stands about the state having literal and legal responsibility for peoples children. It makes sense to be conservative in deciding what material to put in the school library.

> It makes sense to be conservative in deciding what material to put in the school library.

Does it? Is there actual evidence of harm from having these materials available, or is this really just pearl clutching?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#242

Post by cgriswald »

erichocean wrote: post #123

Are "graphic novels" really expected to be given the same treatment as actual books? It's not like school libraries typically have movies for kids to check out and watch at home. If they did have movies, it's likely that anything "R" rated would be "banned" by educators—and I doubt anyone here would care. The graphic novels being "banned" can't be posted to Instagram or Facebook or network TV because: pornographic…bu…

Shouldn't all works of art be given the same treatment regardless of medium?

In any case, claiming comic books should be treated like movies, but not like books is an odd take. Comic books are like movies in the sense that they are sequential works of art, but at that level, so are books. Many illustrated children's books are, in fact, comic books.

> The graphic novels being "banned" can't be posted to Instagram or Facebook or network TV because: pornographic

This is wrong on two counts. First, many of these comic books are banned for issues unrelated to sex. Second, even explicit sexual content isn't ipso facto pornography.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#243

Post by UnFleshedOne »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #169
CountDrewku wrote: post #63

k-12 students are not adults. We ban and censor all sorts of things for the the underage crowd, look up CIPA. There are borderline pedophilia books available at school libraries. I've also seen several examples of incredibly racist CRT books in classrooms. I don't think young kids should have unfettered access to this stuff. They're not able to process it correctly. If communities are saying they do not want this is…

Should religious texts which contain such things or related topics be removed as well?

Yes.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#244

Post by UnFleshedOne »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26
015a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, they are , in some instances, calling for the removal of some of these books from school libraries. I would qualify that as "book burning" (dramatically, metaphorically); its similar to the argument that school lunches have to be healthy, because in unfortunately-to-many cases it may be the only meal that student gets today. Additionally, as you point out of the gulf between this and 1940s Germany, I will point…

You are aware that >40% of this country views flat-earth, LGBTQ studies, and CRT at the same level of regard? If they didn't, why the school board battles going on all over the place? As far as they are concerned, there is no gulf between them.

I'd say out of that list flat earthers have better scientific rigor (too much emphasis on direct sensory experience), just wrong conclusions...

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#245

Post by everybodyknows »

shagie wrote: post #240
everybodyknows wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most are couched in the slang of Shakespeare's time, an effective filter. How many high schoolers get the Nurse's ribald joke about the very young Juliet learning to "fall backwards" once she had grown older? I didn't, not at all sure our teacher got the meaning either, or if she did, then chose not to explain it ... Check out the Zeffirelli Romeo and Juliet to see it played well.

Setting: Catholic high school, late 80s. Freshman English class. We were reading out loud in class the prologue for Romeo and Juliet... and the teacher would occasionally pause the reading to explain the text. A more full account of the events is in https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Shakespearean... which I wrote when it was closer to the present and more fresh in my mind. So yes, at least one class of G…

Miss P. was a rare sort of scholar indeed to be found at the 9th grade level.

> ... wrote when it was closer to the present and more fresh in my mind.

The thought came to me -- being now at an age a few years greater than yours -- that my own collection of memories on similar events has been fading, and those from youth of course being irreplaceable.

Solution: Write them down, only those I'd want to savor again in years ahead. In the form of notes, at least. The act of writing slowly -- over the course of nearly a year now -- puts a light on others in the dusty attic.

Next step is to work up the more amusing and less private of them into anecdotes, for sharing with trusted friends.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#246

Post by mixmastamyk »

wolverine876 wrote: post #215
mixmastamyk wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t a good comment, but will confirm sketchy things happening at libraries in our area. Pretending they don’t happen, or being upset at their mention is not helpful either.

> Pretending they don’t happen, or being upset at their mention is not helpful either. Is that happening?

I have seen a number of things in the last decade or so in that department that I’d prefer not to. Laws became suggestions at some point, not sure why.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#247

Post by dang »

throwaway832167 wrote: post #61
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few did - but not many upon further research. I'll admit Dr. Seuss is not the best example.

You are an extremely dishonest person. Stop engaging in bad faith and posting outright lies, it's clear you're trying to obfuscate the truth to push an agenda.

Breaking the site guidelines like this is not allowed on HN, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Creating accounts to do it will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#248

Post by shagie »

everybodyknows wrote: post #245
shagie wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting: Catholic high school, late 80s. Freshman English class. We were reading out loud in class the prologue for Romeo and Juliet... and the teacher would occasionally pause the reading to explain the text. A more full account of the events is in https://everything2.com/user/m_turner/writeups/Shakespearean... which I wrote when it was closer to the present and more fresh in my mind. So yes, at least one class of G…

Miss P. was a rare sort of scholar indeed to be found at the 9th grade level. > ... wrote when it was closer to the present and more fresh in my mind. The thought came to me -- being now at an age a few years greater than yours -- that my own collection of memories on similar events has been fading, and those from youth of course being irreplaceable. Solution: Write them down, only those I'd want to savor again in ye…

Everything2 is an interesting (to me) entry in the Web 2.0 landscape and early crowdsourcing. The original implementation of it was in '98 - and its still around. It doesn't quite have the same rate of growth of content as it did back when I was writing - but its still there. Some of the people on there later went on to become professional writers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything2

> According to E2's "Site Trajectory", traffic has dropped from 9976 new write-ups created in the month of August 2000, down to 93 new write-ups in February 2017.

https://everything2.com/node/superdoc/Site+Trajectory and https://everything2.com/node/superdoc/Site+Trajectory+2

(It looks like its down to a small core of people)

The key is to record it somewhere. Be it Storycorps ( https://www.npr.org/series/4516989/storycorps ) or a second brain ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29188418 ). Spin up a Wordpress blog and write there (aside, one of my projects is digging through the files from a hard drive of a laptop a bit ago where I wrote using Apple's blogging / web hosting software.

Writing without care of who (if anyone) reads it - for the sheer sake of writing - feels like a dying art form at times.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#249

Post by nec4b »

rayiner wrote: post #236
wolverine876 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What 'cultures' are you talking about? By far the most successful in human history have been modern democratic cultures which, very broadly speaking, focus on freedom. But regardless, the kids should grow into free adults. It's self-evident, as Jefferson said and as much of the world has held to be true for centuries now (again to great success). Are you volunteering to give up your freedom? Then I'll take you up on…

> What 'cultures' are you talking about? By far the most successful in human history have been modern democratic cultures which, very broadly speaking, focus on freedom. Not for kids, which is what we’re talking about here. Read Roald Dahl’s books about British education. That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history. “Freedom” for kids, as opposed to rigid socialization, is a mid-20th century detour.…

>> Read Roald Dahl’s books about British education.

Could you please recommend a specific book for those of us who are interested?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#250

Post by random314 »

rayiner wrote: post #236
wolverine876 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What 'cultures' are you talking about? By far the most successful in human history have been modern democratic cultures which, very broadly speaking, focus on freedom. But regardless, the kids should grow into free adults. It's self-evident, as Jefferson said and as much of the world has held to be true for centuries now (again to great success). Are you volunteering to give up your freedom? Then I'll take you up on…

> What 'cultures' are you talking about? By far the most successful in human history have been modern democratic cultures which, very broadly speaking, focus on freedom. Not for kids, which is what we’re talking about here. Read Roald Dahl’s books about British education. That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history. “Freedom” for kids, as opposed to rigid socialization, is a mid-20th century detour.…

> That’s the culture that built the greatest empire in history.

Which created the 3rd world via colonialism. For reference the Mughal empire that generated 25% of the worlds GDP, or any of the great Chinese empires definitely didn't involve colonialism, famines and death and the creation of the poorest colonial economies in the world to demonstrate their greatness.

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