What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule • Hacker News Board

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#141

Post by tomatofarmer » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #138

tomatofarmer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works exactly how I think it works. As long as no one takes notice, I am free to say whatever I want. You should reflect on how much effort you spend defending such a regime all over this website, twitter, and elsewhere.

Well you're ignoring the fact that the Chinese government is very open to criticisms and actually regularly change policies based on criticism, despite the counter-intuitive act of simultaneously censoring some critics. I have reflected and I disagree with you. Explaining how China works and presenting alternative views is not "defending [an evil] regime", thank you very much.

I am not ignoring that such a thing might happen. The regime must be able to doublespeak. Allowing a small amount of safe criticism and changing policies allows those in power to deflect and convince people who aren't paying attention.

Any criticism that is a legitimate threat is met with blanket censorship - as in the case of Peng Shuai - or deadly violence as in the case of Tiananmen.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#142

Post by Buttersite » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #138

tomatofarmer wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works exactly how I think it works. As long as no one takes notice, I am free to say whatever I want. You should reflect on how much effort you spend defending such a regime all over this website, twitter, and elsewhere.

Well you're ignoring the fact that the Chinese government is very open to criticisms and actually regularly change policies based on criticism, despite the counter-intuitive act of simultaneously censoring some critics. I have reflected and I disagree with you. Explaining how China works and presenting alternative views is not "defending [an evil] regime", thank you very much.

Fuck off bootlicker

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#143

Post by Buttersite » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

boomskats wrote: post #42

I am not trying to defend China or the CCP in any way here, the situation is not defensible. However, I'm surprised that more comparisons haven't been made to the way the West has erased Julian Assange, and how easily he disappeared from our collective consciousness.

[dead]

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#144

Post by mthoms » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

msoad wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why a comment like this is posted here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344355

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

>Censorship in China is not about removing posts that criticize the government. Censorship is applied equally on praises and criticisms of the state.

Can you provide any examples where praise of the government (CCP) was "censored"?

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#145

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

temp8964 wrote: post #98

FooBarWidget wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's commendable that he tried adding more notes but on the whole I don't find it more useful to English speakers than the version I linked. The version you linked also has some things I disagree with: I disagree with note 4, claiming that that paragraph is her evidence for non-consensual relationship. My reading of that paragraph (about 10 years ago, the previous time she had an affair) is that that was consensual,…

The "'rape allegation' narrative" is your imagination. Most news reports did not use the word "rape". "sexual assault" is commonly used in reporting this case. The Economist does not use rape either. "coercive sexual relationship" appeared in the first sentence. Stop making strawman attack.

[deleted]

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#146

Post by AlexCoventry » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #16

AlexCoventry wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the relevance of the Lewinsky scandal to this. No one disappeared in the Lewinsky scandal, right?

Has someone actually disappeared in this case? Is there any suggestion that she was detained in a secret location? Or is it just that she was effectively removed from all the media and public functions? It's not clear to me.

She disappeared for some time, and has since only appeared in tightly controlled situations after public complaints by the WTA led to immense international pressure on the PRC to account for her.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#147

Post by FooBarWidget » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

tomatofarmer wrote: post #141

FooBarWidget wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you're ignoring the fact that the Chinese government is very open to criticisms and actually regularly change policies based on criticism, despite the counter-intuitive act of simultaneously censoring some critics. I have reflected and I disagree with you. Explaining how China works and presenting alternative views is not "defending [an evil] regime", thank you very much.

I am not ignoring that such a thing might happen. The regime must be able to doublespeak. Allowing a small amount of safe criticism and changing policies allows those in power to deflect and convince people who aren't paying attention. Any criticism that is a legitimate threat is met with blanket censorship - as in the case of Peng Shuai - or deadly violence as in the case of Tiananmen.

You are free to disagree and I am free to disagree with you. But I am sure glad that 98% of Chinese people are happy and feel that the country is heading in the right direction, and I am glad that the world has a diverse set of governance systems.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#148

Post by Manuel_D » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #107

msoad wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why a comment like this is posted here? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344355

(Part 1) Here's where the original translation becomes relevant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344036 Specifically, there are doubts on whether it's a rape charge at all. See the translation discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29344244 One possible interpretation of the main point of the post is that it was venting about Zhao having left her and played with her feelings. Her social media ac…

> Fan Bingbing is a good case. Jack Ma is another case. In all these cases, the person in question is not in danger in the sense of being tortured in a prison. It's taking in for questioning with a gag order (and depending on the severity of the case, a house arrest) until it's over

Being put under house arrest and prevented from having contact with the outside world by the government, without being charged with a crime is a pretty big abuse power. Imagine if Trump just put one of his critics under house arrest and prevented contact with the outside for several months. This would be an outrageous thing to do, and there'd probably have been riots outside the White House.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and I believe that you earnestly feel this is an okay thing for the CCP to do. But that's not swaying my skepticism and distrust of the Chinese government. The fact that it's successfully normalized this level of authoritarianism among mainland Chinese to such an extent that they earnestly see it as normal is precisely why most Westerners are so distrustful of the Chinese government.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#149

Post by marcus_holmes » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #126

__s wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't know context of joke here, so looked it up: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/11/jamie-dimon-quickly-... The quotation seems to be garbled in that link, https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/jamie-dimon-jokes-jpmorgan... has one that makes more sense > The Communist Party is celebrating its 100th year. So is JPMorgan. And I’ll make you a bet we last longer. Tho second link isn't a citation for: > I can’t say th…

"Didn't know context of joke here" Why are people referring to it as a joke? He may have said it in a jocular tone-of-voice, but I don't think it was a joke at all: it's a reasoned statement to make and furthermore it's a statement I agree with: given US blue-chip companies' propensity to entrench themselves and the CCP's reversion back to authoritarianism (which history has made abundantly clear: rarely ends-well fo…

There is a view of history where the thousands of years of Chinese rule-by-bureaucracy is uninterrupted.

My grandfather grew up there and was fond of saying "you have to remember the Chinese did not pray to God. The average Chinese person is not important enough for that. They prayed to the third under-secretary to God's chamberlain. What they really worship is bureaucracy". I don't know China well enough to comment on this myself, but I always found it a fascinating take on the situation.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#150

Post by juanani » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

beckman466 wrote: post #118

double standard: the US propertied class is openly involved in a bunch of wars and regime change operations in a number of countries (which essentially comes down to severe human rights violations). why aren't we boycotting all sporting events held by the US?

Because this is a western centric forum, and with anything western centric- it is being chiseled into our DNA to despise outsiders(can be anyone that isn't brbding over to our will). And these westerners(the ones in the know) realistically cant survive a quality of life provided without extortion of the weaker groups.