Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#141

Post by netizen-936824 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #136

netizen-936824 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To take this a step further, we cannot control the regulation of our neurotransmitters to the degree of giving a person with autism social skills. That's just not how things work, so in a way it IS a bit fixed. We are fixed to the range of what we are born with, unless we use some sort of pharmacological intervention. When it comes to autism and social skills, some interesting treatments may come from mu-opioid recep…

Perhaps there are limits indeed, but when will you reach those hard limits? Or is it just hard to push those limits? I'd say the latter.

To answer this you need to look to genetics and epigenetics. Those are the hard limits, and I would advise against making assumptions before you do consult experts on gene and receptor protein regulation. Those are the mechanisms that underlie the adaptive features of an organism (humans are organisms)

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#142

Post by posix86 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

apogosyan wrote: post #58

tomhoward wrote: post #55

A huge factor in what we think are your "social skills" is actually our subconscious programming. A lot of the time, when we "try to improve our social skills", we are consciously trying and change/control the things we say and do, whereas the things that people are responding to are things we have no conscious control over or even awareness of, such as our eye movements, facial/hand/body tics, posture, breathing, an…

Could you elaborate on the emotional healing techniques?

Not Op, but had a similar realization (i.e. there are days where I'm awkward & don't connect ever though I spend conscious effort; and days where I'm a social butterfly without trying at all; therefore, conscious effort is at best uncorrelated). I do is what I'd describe as "taking care of myself", which means in part adapting good habits such as doing sports, sleeping enough, eating good, but also to be kind to myself: let me be lazy sometimes, do what I set out to do, and treat myself with positive experiences that have no deeper meaning (paradoxically, they do make a difference long term). You become more relaxed and happy with yourself, and you're more content, allowing you to "give" more in relationships without the other person having to do anything, which is greatly appreciated generally, and readily returned. The most important factor of all though is mindfulness meditation, everything else follows from it in my experience.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#143

Post by notreallyserio » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #57

RealityVoid wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find min-maxing real life rarely to be a good strategy. And obviously, OP feels this is a problem for him, and if so, he should know how to abd be able to address it.

What part of my comment is about min-maxing real life? The GP addresses "tech workers" in general, not just OP with comments about sitting indoors. My response is in that context, not directed at OP.

The asmartbear blog post comes across a little min-max-y, what with the concrete numbers and assertion that you can't have a job, spouse, and kids at the same time.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#144

Post by notreallyserio » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

thewarrior wrote: post #23

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

It's not. I think you just need to go out more. Social skills are not improved by spending all your time indoor in front of your computer playing with the latest cool new framework, or learning about ML from youtube or grinding leetcode for that next fancy job or playing videogames or watching Netflix. IMHO social skills are easy to pick up, and that's coming from an introvert, you just need to put yourself out there…

I can try to help out with my haphazard guide to social skills that I’ve picked up from my experiences. This is tailored to the biases most nerds have towards social interactions. 1. Stop trying to make sense of everything people do in social situations using logic. There is a deeper logic to most things people do however you are much better off imitating what others do at first. And then observing and taking feedbac…

"2. Pay attention to how you dress, how you speak"

... and equally importantly how you smell. I can't tell you how many times I've had to walk away from someone who clearly hasn't bathed in days.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#145

Post by notreallyserio » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

spion wrote: post #114

thewarrior wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can try to help out with my haphazard guide to social skills that I’ve picked up from my experiences. This is tailored to the biases most nerds have towards social interactions. 1. Stop trying to make sense of everything people do in social situations using logic. There is a deeper logic to most things people do however you are much better off imitating what others do at first. And then observing and taking feedbac…

> Learn to stand your ground without being confrontational and cleverly diffusing conflict using poise and language. What do you think is the most effective ways of doing this?

I don't entirely agree with this one. IMO it's better to learn to make your point(s) correctly and concisely, and if possible with authority, but also periodically check yourself to see if the matter is worth arguing about and that you're not just repeating yourself. Sometimes it's better to just disengage, especially when the stakes are low (at social events rather than work).

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#146

Post by AH4oFVbPT4f8 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 4:34 PM UTC

hluska wrote: post #79

You know bud, if you’re interested, let’s be hackers and hack this social skill test. Can you give me a specific situation (or several) where you feel your social skills are lacking?? Let’s start off by testing your theory. I’m old enough to have known a lot of really wonderful people who think their social skills suck when they actually don’t - they’re just interested in completely different, non typical things. Fro…

Greg, thanks for posting this, this is all very good insight especially about how to approach people with an opening. For many, that ability to know what to say does not come easily and your pointers are helpful.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#147

Post by BeFlatXIII » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

gonzo41 wrote: post #60

thewarrior wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can try to help out with my haphazard guide to social skills that I’ve picked up from my experiences. This is tailored to the biases most nerds have towards social interactions. 1. Stop trying to make sense of everything people do in social situations using logic. There is a deeper logic to most things people do however you are much better off imitating what others do at first. And then observing and taking feedbac…

16. Remember things and topics of conversation about the people you meet and ask about those things about them next time you meet. Even if you know how things are going, or it's boring, It's polite and it shows you care enough to remember and ask.

At that point, I may as well give up. I can continue where we left off once the other person brings up the subject, but being the one to correctly remember which conversation went with which person is not a game I expect to win.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#148

Post by polishdude20 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

I'd argue that until you can teach a machine social skills, you can't compare the two in difficulty.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#149

Post by jjj123 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

A little different from the rest of the comments here, but have you considered going to therapy? It’s a deep dive into your own interior life, which I’ve found is useful in connecting with others. Another way to put it: how can you understand others if you don’t understand yourself?

Not saying it’s a silver bullet, but it helped me!

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#150

Post by GDC7 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

If you are a guy then Social skills are about one thing only:

Accepting failures and low success rates

People who love machine learning belong to the camp of the serial optimisers.

There is hardly something which is more at the opposite end of the spectrum

Also given that we are taking about machine learning let me quote the movie Moneyball

Moneyball of course isn’t about machine learning , but it’s actually about something even more important: how clean are the data being used

In any event at some point Billy Beane portrayed by Brad Pitt says :

“I hate losing…in fact I hate losing more than I love winning”

Well in order to be “good with social skills “ you gotta be the opposite …you gotta love winning much more than you hate losing , so that the few victories will get you excited and propel your spirit through all the rejections .