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Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#121

Post by hluska »

simiones wrote: post #118
fho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or when you’re in a meeting, make sure everyone else has three times the chances to speak that you do. That rhymes with something I "deducted" lately: somebody at work just talks with no end. One of those persons that keep on talking even though you left the room, requiring you to do double turns because it is not socially acceptable to just leave a conversation. One observation (shared by co-workers) is that talki…

Small off-topic note: dialogue has nothing to do with di-, 2, its etymology is dia-, "across, between". For all n > 1, n people speaking together are in a dialogue.

If this is Christine, I’m very happy you’re here. Dia legein! :)

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#122

Post by fho »

simiones wrote: post #118
fho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or when you’re in a meeting, make sure everyone else has three times the chances to speak that you do. That rhymes with something I "deducted" lately: somebody at work just talks with no end. One of those persons that keep on talking even though you left the room, requiring you to do double turns because it is not socially acceptable to just leave a conversation. One observation (shared by co-workers) is that talki…

Small off-topic note: dialogue has nothing to do with di-, 2, its etymology is dia-, "across, between". For all n > 1, n people speaking together are in a dialogue.

Oh! The more you know!

I guess then I shouldn't be using the "trialog" wording above.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#123

Post by simiones »

hluska wrote: post #121
simiones wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small off-topic note: dialogue has nothing to do with di-, 2, its etymology is dia-, "across, between". For all n > 1, n people speaking together are in a dialogue.

If this is Christine, I’m very happy you’re here. Dia legein! :)

Nope, not Christine.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#124

Post by dempedempe »

teekert wrote: post #93

Isn't this called Autism (spectrum disorder)? I've heard stories about people coming of age suddenly realizing that people less intelligent then them are better at the social game, how can it be?? And then they realize it is something others are born with, others don't need to analyze and learn all the time. A friend of mine on the spectrum recommended "The Tao of Badass" to me once, he tried to have some conversatio…

Saying "someone is just born with it" is called a fixed mindset approach[1]. It sets you up for failure. I used to be hideous with talking to people, but I worked at it and, most importantly, _believed that I could improve_.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindset#Fixed_and_growth_minds...

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#125

Post by fho »

hluska wrote: post #120
fho wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or when you’re in a meeting, make sure everyone else has three times the chances to speak that you do. That rhymes with something I "deducted" lately: somebody at work just talks with no end. One of those persons that keep on talking even though you left the room, requiring you to do double turns because it is not socially acceptable to just leave a conversation. One observation (shared by co-workers) is that talki…

First off, this is incredibly interesting and you seem like an unbelievably cool person. I’m serious - this is one heck of a great addition, I’m glad you shared and I really dig knowing that other people add numbers to social things too. :) I’m going to figure out how to express my advice differently. Three times works well in a three person conversation but you’re right - it will start to fail when groups get bigger…

> an unbelievably cool person

Thanks ;-)

One consequence of that 1:(n-1) "rule" above is that at some point it basically does not make a difference anymore. The step from 1:1 to 1:2 is "huge" (2x vs 3x more than the alotted speaking time), but once more people are in the room every other person joining just changes the denominator by a tiny amount.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#126

Post by sleepysysadmin »

teekert wrote: post #93

Isn't this called Autism (spectrum disorder)? I've heard stories about people coming of age suddenly realizing that people less intelligent then them are better at the social game, how can it be?? And then they realize it is something others are born with, others don't need to analyze and learn all the time. A friend of mine on the spectrum recommended "The Tao of Badass" to me once, he tried to have some conversatio…

>Isn't this called Autism (spectrum disorder)? I've heard stories about people coming of age suddenly realizing that people less intelligent then them are better at the social game, how can it be?? And then they realize it is something others are born with, others don't need to analyze and learn all the time.

I suspect aspergers is wide but not necessarily the definition of bad social skills. Social skills are easy to learn. They are skills and do require training like any other skill. If you've never had the opportunity to learn them, you will end up later in life realizing you need to learn them.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#127

Post by bedbot »

Hi, I used to struggle with socializing a lot. Now I have a job where the main value I add (on top of other nerds who might do the same job) is that I’m sociable.

When I was in my early twenties, two resources helped me a lot:

- Dale Carnegie’s How To Win Friends and Influence People

- https://www.succeedsocially.com/

Both resources present algorithms, if you will, for getting people to like you— and for learning to like them as well. IMO that is the most important thing: you have to like people, at least in the moment, in order to get along with them. It’s okay to still be an introvert; I’ve learned one of they keys to this is to figure out when you just can’t socialize anymore and need to retreat. You can’t force it, but you can learn it and practice it.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#128

Post by teekert »

dempedempe wrote: post #124
teekert wrote: post #93

Isn't this called Autism (spectrum disorder)? I've heard stories about people coming of age suddenly realizing that people less intelligent then them are better at the social game, how can it be?? And then they realize it is something others are born with, others don't need to analyze and learn all the time. A friend of mine on the spectrum recommended "The Tao of Badass" to me once, he tried to have some conversatio…

Saying "someone is just born with it" is called a fixed mindset approach[1]. It sets you up for failure. I used to be hideous with talking to people, but I worked at it and, most importantly, _believed that I could improve_. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindset#Fixed_and_growth_minds...

I agree with the importance of avoiding a fixed mindset, but, recognizing that some people are born with a skill and you are not does not mean that you can't become adapt at said skill (I went through something similar with math, although I still feel like I lost my fear of math rather than becoming really good at it)... Or find your own "way of the ninja" (sorry too much Naruto, thinking of Rock Lee ;) [0])

[0] https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Rock_Lee

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#129

Post by newacc9 »

Social skills have a large component of body language/reading the room <-- these can definitely be learned. The social problem with your hobby of watching AI videos and programming is that it will not result in anecdotes or stories to relate to others. Telling people about what you've been up to and/or what you are excited about is the bread and butter of social interaction -- but if all your time is spent in super deep quiet hobbies like AI, chess, go... these won't result in good anecdotes. The two hobbies you should take up are cooking and fitness, since you're going to need them anyway and they are highly relatable to others, and it will get you out of the house to the farmer's market, the gym, a new restaurant, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#130

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

xwdv wrote: post #89
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #4

It's not. I think you just need to go out more. Social skills are not improved by spending all your time indoor in front of your computer playing with the latest cool new framework, or learning about ML from youtube or grinding leetcode for that next fancy job or playing videogames or watching Netflix. IMHO social skills are easy to pick up, and that's coming from an introvert, you just need to put yourself out there…

> so these people are most likely the ones who have spend their prime years mostly indoor in front of a screen working away on code and algos, chasing that top dream job, instead of "out-there" working with people. God damn, this is the cherry on top for an entire post that was a pile of borderline condescending platitudes. This hand wavy advice of just going “out there” and interacting with people is unhelpful. Out…

>[...]an entire post that was a pile of borderline condescending platitudes. This hand wavy advice of just going “out there” and interacting with people is unhelpful[...]

Please.

I can't speak for you and there's no way for me to know what hobbies you have in order to give you precise advice for what you should do with your life. Nor do I know exactly where you live, what your culture is like in terms of socializing, and what social opportunities you have in your area. Nor is it my responsibility to do that for you.

So my post was intentional like that as it's up to you to figure out where exactly "out there" you need to go to fulfill your goal of improving your social skills as I can't do it for you.

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