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Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#91

Post by rahoulb »

In my experience, it all comes down to putting yourself in the other person's shoes. What do they think when you approach them? What would they like to happen? What outcomes do they want?

Smile - it is welcoming to other people. Make eye contact (and learn when to drop it) - it connects with the other person.

Be careful with your language - saying "It is X" comes across very differently to "I think it is X".

Open your body language - hunched, closed posture looks defensive. Standing so the other person can see across the room gives them an out - even if they don't want to use it, having it makes a big different.

And, most importantly of all, listen more than you talk. People love to feel like they're important, that their interactions with the rest of the world mean something. If you truly listen to them and take on board what they're saying they will notice it - because so often we just get talked at and what we're saying is ignored.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#92

Post by mucholove »

Why is ML easier than social skills? I think because social skills hit your emotions.

With that said—some advice.

2 types of social skills:

1 - Approach

2 - Long term / friendship / partnership

Both are very different. I'm good at the first, but not great at the second.

For the first:

1 - Make sure you are healthy and getting healthier. Fitness first. (I recommend Partner Acrobatics—and once strong enough BJJ. These are also social. Best path to strength is through gymnastics). Get a personal trainer if you can.

2 - Learn to get over rejection. It will happen a bunch—by both males and females. A lot of people—especially older, already have friends. They don't need more.

3 - Join hobby-based groups. What do you really like? Do it with a group. Find a group. And make sure you really like what you do. The energy you give off will bring people to you.

For the long term:

1 - Time management is crucial.

2 - Invite people over for dinners

3 - Make sure you plan lots of activites

4 - Make sure you can view social events on your calendar app so you fill every day

5 - Learn to listen.

6 - Learn to follow up with people about really meaningful events / people / projects in their lives and call/see them every 3 months or less. Ideally you can find someone you talk to every day :) And then an ever growing number of people in the other buckets.

Good luck!!

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#93

Post by teekert »

Isn't this called Autism (spectrum disorder)? I've heard stories about people coming of age suddenly realizing that people less intelligent then them are better at the social game, how can it be?? And then they realize it is something others are born with, others don't need to analyze and learn all the time.

A friend of mine on the spectrum recommended "The Tao of Badass" to me once, he tried to have some conversations on the bus after reading it, he said it worked for him, but still tired him out, he just didn't care. Makes smile, I'm sorry. I have no idea how it is, I was born with the skills, apparently.

FYI, I find this friend to be a fascinating person and a good friend. He hates change, he still lives with his parents pushing 40, but he is so real, so genuine, it's all I want in a friend. He'll never ask about my weekend, and when he does I feel it's fake (applying tricks from Tao of badass), he'll ask what my favorite thing was yesterday or how something makes me feel :D. But we can have passionate discussions about sci-fi or philosophy. He said he was called a high functioning autistic person, I joke that this means he is almost human. I got to know him at work, he could be exhausting, standing at my desk for literal hours asking questions. But I felt that I was a poor scientist if I couldn't answer them or explain why I couldn't answer them. He deeply appreciated that.

He works somewhere else now, I send him a message every now and them. I invited him to meet each other some time back. It was fun, he'll never contact me, but I don't mind.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#95

Post by dsego »

Personal hygiene, make sure to look at people's face and eyes when interacting. Show genuine interest in other people, make the effort, remember their name, pay attention to what they share. Don't assume what other people think or know, or put them in buckets based on previous interactions with other people (or based on their appearance). Be aware of subtle social cues and emotional states, including ones you're giving out. Being aware of common behavior patterns, including maladjusted personality traits also helps (https://outofthefog.website/traits).

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#96

Post by marcinzm »

There's different types of social rules. Most of the responses talk about the baseline rules (listening, empathy, etc.). There are also, for lack of a better, class rules which are designed to be opaque and inherently meaningless. They only matter as a way to check if you came from the right background and connections. If you did then they'd have taught them to you and if you didn't then the point of them is to get you excluded. The class rules exist both in the broader social class division but also in subgroups of people who have their own in-language or expected behavior. For example, silicon valley tech bros have their own set of class rules designed to also exclude people without the right background or connections to know them. Keep in mind that many people think these are just the "proper" way to behave rather than meaningless rules implicitly aimed at excluding others.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#98

Post by fho »

hluska wrote: post #79

You know bud, if you’re interested, let’s be hackers and hack this social skill test. Can you give me a specific situation (or several) where you feel your social skills are lacking?? Let’s start off by testing your theory. I’m old enough to have known a lot of really wonderful people who think their social skills suck when they actually don’t - they’re just interested in completely different, non typical things. Fro…

> Or when you’re in a meeting, make sure everyone else has three times the chances to speak that you do.

That rhymes with something I "deducted" lately: somebody at work just talks with no end. One of those persons that keep on talking even though you left the room, requiring you to do double turns because it is not socially acceptable to just leave a conversation.

One observation (shared by co-workers) is that talking to him alone (two person dialog), is actually quite bearable. He is definitely a smart guy and has a lot of interesting (if opinionated) things to say about basically every topic.

Where this becomes unbearable is in conversations with three or more participants. Once more than two people are in conversation the "alotted conversation time" per person immediately drops by a significant percentage (two persons -> 1:1, three -> 1:2, n persons -> 1:(n-1)).

tl;dr: A person that talks non-stop only uses double his "alotted speaking time" in a two person conversation, but that same person uses thrice his share once three persons converse.

Re: Ask HN: Why is machine learning easier to learn than basic social skills?

#99

Post by fho »

mucholove wrote: post #92

Why is ML easier than social skills? I think because social skills hit your emotions. With that said—some advice. 2 types of social skills: 1 - Approach 2 - Long term / friendship / partnership Both are very different. I'm good at the first, but not great at the second. For the first: 1 - Make sure you are healthy and getting healthier. Fitness first. (I recommend Partner Acrobatics—and once strong enough BJJ. These…

> 2 - Invite people over for dinners

Or other social activities/hobbies. I guess that's why board games are so popular, they allow you to have social interactions while following a very constrained set of rules.

edit: I shouldn't leave this uncommented:

> 5 - Learn to listen.

This! People want to talk, people feel good if they have the feeling that someone cares for them. Just listening is a great way to make friends.

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