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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

staceyoniot.com

341–350 of 375 posts

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#341
post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

Same. I'm someone that built a cellphone from parts and programmed my own phone OS, so I get the tinkering for the sake of tinkering aspect, but I can't connect with the need to automate all these workflows in my house. Whenever someone describes how much convenience these workflows provide, all I can think of is how big and complicated their homes must be.

I'd rather have a 2-way light switch at either end of the hallway and hit a switch when I walk down it, rather than program in every exception like "turn on the hall light when it detects motion unless it's 3 am and I'm walking to the bathroom to pee, or if it's 3pm and my girlfriend is napping on the sofa next to the hall and I don't want to turn on a light and wake her, also ignore cats triggering the motion detectors." My small apartment with regular old deterministic switches is fine. I had a Nest once and hated it. At least for me, the ideal temperature for a room must be a very subjective and non-rational desire. Sometimes I want to blast the heat, sometimes I want to feel cold, it's probably emotional/psychological on a level that Nest can't model.

I know someone will point out that 100 years ago I would think washing machines sounded ridiculous because I could scrub my clothes by hand easily enough. That might be true, but I would counter that there are diminishing returns on home automation. Indoor lighting was a massive improvement over living by daylight hours. Electricity over gas was a big improvement, but not as big as going from dark to light. Turning lights on with Alexa, to me, sounds like the benefit/cost curve has plateaued.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#342
post #193

A few people have mentioned smart bulbs. I have some data that might be useful when choosing smart bulbs if dimming ability is important to you. I measured a few in a dark room with the bulb in a desk lamp aimed straight down at a lux meter on the desk. The bulb was 41 cm from the meter. For each bulb I measured at 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% brightness. The bulbs I had were a TP-Link wh…

Damn this is a great comment. This kind of data is impossible to find online. Bookmarking.

Also not surprised to see the Hue do so well at the lowest dimming levels. It's crazy how much nicer my Hue (White Ambient) bulbs function as nightlights compared to the Sengleds or no-name ESPHome ones.

Their pricing hurts, but I guess I'll just suck it up and stick with them for my remaining purchases.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#343
post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

So I really see the value of voice-activated stuff now that I have a baby. I have a few Ikea dimmable LEDs which work reasonably well aside from the 0.5s-5s delay to actuate them. I've even set up Homebridge to get non-Homekit baby devices (like the Hatch sound machine) voice activated via Siri. But the phone home stuff is just insane to me. I bought an Insignia garage door opener trigger that works with Homekit nati…

Just buy Open Source stuff. I recently bought a smart plug from "athom.tech" (on aliexpress) that came with ESPhome. No phoning home. I also had access to the HTTP API in less than 5 minutes.

I could open it and connect more stuff to the GPIO, patch out the annoying LED or do something else with it. Install tasmota instead. It's quite liberating :)

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#344
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact we're sending 240V AC around inside the walls for no reason is a whole other question. But an optocoupler relay is also about £1, so there's that.

still need to power the esp so you'd maybe need mains AC-DC PSU.

I put ethernet everywhere to use PoE, 48V DC is much better suited for most things in your house these days

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#345
post #19
post #16

I am building my own lighting controls (using Bluetooth Mesh as the underlying communications technology), because I don't want the madness of IoT. There is a misconception that building reliable products with a full TCP/IP stack and internet-based servers is a good idea. It isn't. We don't have to go back to mechanical devices: there are ways to build reliable home automation solutions. Just don't make them all inte…

Is there a reason you're not using a standard like Zigbee? It has the same use case, non-wifi stable local connectivity to control lights or other devices. And it's a standard so you can buy components from many vendors.

You mean, a standard like Bluetooth Mesh? https://www.bluetooth.com/learn-about-bluetooth/recent-enhan...

There are many factors when choosing your communications layer. Bluetooth Mesh was designed specifically with lighting in mind, so that you can for example ensure that dimming multiple lights simultaneously happens in sync.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#346
post #332
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your not getting the weather forecast from your local network, so your put to at least 2 cloud dependencies. A really basic test it how much still works when the internet fails. Because just that watering setup is the opposite of rock solid. If the electricity is on, and these several devices in your house didn’t fail, and you have internet, and the cloud service works, then you water your lawn unless the weather for…

When the internet fails, my garden won't get watered (though, I live in an area where it rains about 160 days a year), and I'll have to adjust my thermostat by turning it with my hand. When my cloud dependency fails, I'll use another of the 400 ways to get weather data. I've already switched weather providers several times. Don't worry about me; I'll make it through. ;) > sucking up more time than those home automati…

> When my cloud dependency fails, I'll use another of the 400 ways to get weather data. I've already switched weather providers several times. Don't worry about me; I'll make it through. ;)

> And I'd rather spend 10 hours automating something than 1 hour doing it. I'm not doing this to create free time, I'm doing it in my free time.

That’s exactly the point the original commenter was making. It’s a hobby, you do this because you enjoy it, and it’s not a general off-the-shelf solution that anyone can pick and plug it in. Nothing wrong with that, I enjoy the same stuff so I know where you’re coming from. But I’d be lying if I said it’s simple and robust like the mechanical timer thing.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#347
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still need to power the esp so you'd maybe need mains AC-DC PSU.

I put ethernet everywhere to use PoE, 48V DC is much better suited for most things in your house these days

I agree, and power negotiation is great.

But things that can use it seem to be expensive. I checked, the chips are fairly cheap; but all the PoE stuff I might use aren't "one per light socket" prices. Plus I'd still like a decent mains relay board that is appropriate to put in a wall - the Shellys' are a good form for this, but I cannot see a similar wired solution (although some Sonos devices get close).

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know if they have a simple smart outlet? I want to use one with my Christmas tree lights because getting to the switch is difficult. I looked on Amazon and didn't see anything so I ended up ordering a cheap Refoss device that I have very low expectations for.

Yes, Lutron has indoor and outdoor variants: https://www.casetawireless.com/products/smart-plugs

The indoor version is a lamp dimmer. I just want a simple on/off outlet. The outdoor version is functionally close to what I want, but it’s big and ugly - something I don’t want inside.

This seems like a hole in their lineup.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#349
post #340
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [...] that feed into a prometheus -> cortex store, so I can then map them on Grafana. I had to Google because I've never heard of any of those. Did I find the right ones? https://prometheus.io/ https://cortexmetrics.io/ https://grafana.com/ Mine is much more primitive. My indoor temperature monitor is an ESP8266 that uploads the temperature to a simple PHP page that saves it in an sqlite DB. A cron job runs a Perl…

Au contraire - your setup is way more sophisticated than mine! : ) I have some 433MHz kit, plus a bundle of various arduinos, but (for me) the complexity of getting them to talk back to base has kept me procrastinating for years. The ESP8266/ESP32 devices, with WiFi built-in, are effectively the same price as arduinos (here in AU, via ebay) but so much more convenient because of that extra memory + the wifi. I'm goin…

> I have some 433MHz kit, plus a bundle of various arduinos, but (for me) the complexity of getting them to talk back to base has kept me procrastinating for years.

The transmit side is pretty easy. Here's the xmit.ino file from my rain gauge project [1].

The receive side using one of those typical 433 MHz receive modules looks like a complete pain in the ass. I spent a while with the transmitter and receiver both on a breadboard hooked up to my oscilloscope, one channel on the transmit data in signal, one channel on the receiver data out signal, and one channel on the receiver receiver linear out signal.

Triggering on transmit and looking at the receiver output it didn't look too bad. But triggering on receiver output it was terrible. It was almost always outputting a mostly random looking stream of 1s and 0s of variable lengths. You have to watch that and look for things you recognize embedded in it.

Triggering on the linear output was more promising. My understanding is that the way these cheap receivers work is that they automatically adjust the gain until they are seeing something, so when you aren't actually receiving a signal they are just amplifying noise. When you actually are receiving a decent transmission the gain turns down. When that transmission ends the gain goes back up. (This, I've read, is one of the reasons most transmissions start with a long intro pulse before going into the actual bits. It gives the receiver a chance to turn down the gain so that it won't be including a lot of noise in the output).

The linear out signal is analog. It is higher when receiving a strong signal, and lower when receiving a weak signal or ambient noise. So it looks like using the linear out signal to decide when it is worth looking at the digital out to check if your device is being received could considerably cut down the processing needed at the receiver. By adjusting the trigger level on the scope I could get it to usually only trigger when an actual device that I can get a decent signal from was transmitting.

The good news is that you can say "to heck with all that" and cheat like I did. Forget the 433 MHz receive modules. Cheap SDR dongle on the receiving computer, rtl_433 [2] to do all the work of finding and decoding the signals among the noise, and you are all set plus as a bonus you can also see other 433 MHz sensors that happen to be in your area.

PS: if anyone looks at that transmit code and wonders why there is no checksum that is because I haven't gotten around to adding one. It is a tipping rain gauge and according to models I found for my area at my state's department of transportation site at the highest short term (5 minute) intensity that I would expect to see on average once per 100 years it would be tipping at 10 tips a minute. Thus the tip count should be an increasing sequence that when it changes mostly should change by 1, and rarely by more. It is easy to spot when the data is corrupt and so I've not found much need to add a checksum. I'll do that when I add my wind speed and direction sensors).

(Departments of transportation are good places to look for rainfall models for an area because their engineers need them to figure out how much runoff they have to deal with when designing drainage for road projects).

[1] https://pastebin.com/7Aus3U3R

[2] https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#350
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put ethernet everywhere to use PoE, 48V DC is much better suited for most things in your house these days

I agree, and power negotiation is great. But things that can use it seem to be expensive. I checked, the chips are fairly cheap; but all the PoE stuff I might use aren't "one per light socket" prices. Plus I'd still like a decent mains relay board that is appropriate to put in a wall - the Shellys' are a good form for this, but I cannot see a similar wired solution (although some Sonos devices get close).

https://www.olimex.com/Products/IoT/ESP32/ESP32-POE/open-sou... is probably the best option
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