As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective • Hacker News Board

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#201

Post by mixmastamyk » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:07 AM UTC

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #176

cik2e wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen people downplaying the contents book using arguments like "these kids are already looking at porn, so who cares?" Whatever, I don't have an issue with that. Been there, done that. But how about this one? What if you're one of the many kids who want to but can't get laid in high school? Seeing teenage sex normalized by the school itself could lead to all kinds of additional insecurities.

If you’re a teenager who is having an emotional, strongly negative response to seeing fictional acts of sexual behavior in a comic because you can’t have actual sex, that is a perfect opportunity for you to reach out to adults in your life so you can have a clearly sorted talk about how to have a healthy relationship with sex and intimacy.

It takes two to tango.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#202

Post by shkkmo » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:09 AM UTC

danielvaughn wrote: post #195

shkkmo wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes sense to be conservative in deciding what material to put in the school library. It really doesn't. School is one of the best places we can have people encounter challenging idea and works for the first time. If we coddle people on school and then they are exposed to those ideas on their own (which they will be) then they have fewer resources to aid in processing those ideas and are more likely to end up c…

That’s a good formula for college, once children have become legal adults and are responsible for themselves. While they’re children, it’s up to the parents to expose them to the world.

Most people don't go to college and even if they did, you need to start teaching these cognitive skills much earlier.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#203

Post by austincheney » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

rch wrote: post #182

quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

I grew up in Texas, and disagreements about the harm certain content (exactly which varies) can do to society, in or out of classrooms, could become heated in a hurry. I believe it's appropriate to err on the side of openness, and keep context in mind. That hasn't always been popular.

I grew up in Texas too. I can remember loud parents crying about censorship for certain books. They were always just one or two at a time and everybody thought they were extreme wackos, but the school district has to avoid controversy before lawyers get involved and really screw it up.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#204

Post by openfuture » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:18 AM UTC

dsr_ wrote: post #145

Cpoll wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas. I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway: 1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn'…

I have never run up against problems caused by people reading too widely. I have frequently seen problems caused by people who didn't read enough.

Errr.. reading too widely is a well known problem called "analysis paralysis" or "procrastination" and there are several other labels. (Curious!) people who "don't read enough" are great to have around the ones who read too much, from my pov problems stem from these groups being unwilling to work together.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#205

Post by horns4lyfe » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:18 AM UTC

everybodyknows wrote: post #198

WkndTriathlete wrote: post #122

I'll admit that the one that puzzled me was the school district that banned "Catch-22".

“I remember one day we tricked two dumb high-school girls from town into the fraternity house and made them put out for all the fellows there ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Aardvark I read Catch-22 in high school, and that bit felt plenty disturbing at the time.

Are you suggesting you’d have been better off if they had banned it?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#206

Post by steve76 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

Life is so much easier when you get away from people. Don't show me this horrible stuff. Cure death. Stop flailing about because you failed at that.

Other people do not need exposure. They see it enough. If people were a zoo animal, you wouldn't show sick alarming stuff at them. If you did and got bit, it's your fault. They are fine without you.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#207

Post by kradeelav » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:19 AM UTC

danielvaughn wrote: post #195

shkkmo wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes sense to be conservative in deciding what material to put in the school library. It really doesn't. School is one of the best places we can have people encounter challenging idea and works for the first time. If we coddle people on school and then they are exposed to those ideas on their own (which they will be) then they have fewer resources to aid in processing those ideas and are more likely to end up c…

That’s a good formula for college, once children have become legal adults and are responsible for themselves. While they’re children, it’s up to the parents to expose them to the world.

Yes and no. I would argue it's even more important to maintain a variety of voices in repressive environments like private religious schools and libraries, especially where queer kids (as one of many examples) there may not have any access to stories reflecting their own experiences. Being that repressed is far more harmful than anything fiction can do, and I speak as that literal example there.

I owe my entire current mentality to the books and literature I found on my own beyond the parent's wishes. They're good people in many ways, but having that sanctum to explore other experiences was critical.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#208

Post by netizen-936824 » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:42 AM UTC

tenebrisalietum wrote: post #150

netizen-936824 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the 'correct' way to process it? Who determines what is 'correct'? When do they learn this correct way? How do they learn? Considering you seem confident in this knowledge, I eagerly await the list of citations.

> Who determines what is 'correct'? The kids' parents. > When do they learn this correct way? The kids' parents. > How do they learn? From their parents. After all the child belongs to the parents so they get to make these decisions.

In that case, why have schools at all? The parents are apparently omnipotent and can handle instruction, no?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#209

Post by rayiner » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

Schools are for the socialization of children. Fundamentally a different context than other libraries.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#210

Post by rayiner » Thu, Nov 25, 2021, 3:55 AM UTC

kvathupo wrote: post #125

lr4444lr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…

From the Texas legislator's proposed list of banned books, I fail to see why books such as "Bioethics Beyond the Headlines" or "V for Vendetta" should be banned. Indeed, it does concern me that much of the novels are fictional works portraying the LGBT experience. I can't imagine how alienating it must be to students of that group. As an aside, I find it amusing that Shakespeare is never banned on the grounds of sexu…

To be clear, we’re talking about books that have graphic images of sex. They wouldn’t be appropriate even if they involved straight sex. Don’t use LGBT acceptance to promote sexualization of minors.