The greatest threat to digital libraries (such as libgen, sci-hub, and the Open Library itself) isn't censorship but copyright enforcement – and technology that attempts to impose the limits of physical paper onto bits.
As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
171–180 of 263 posts
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
Having personally read some of Rand’s fiction as a teen (from my high school library no less!) I think you’d be hard pressed to find a reason to “ban” them. The narrative in Anthem, for example, is so hilariously over the top I’m not sure what the argument would be. It’s a Pol Pot “Year Zero” style civilization, and the randian superman subverts the established collectivist order by single handedly reinventing the li…
I really had Atlas Shrugged in mind, which is convincing enough to regularly show up on Republican booklists (and AFAIR at least one Supreme Court judge) and has all sorts of (my opinion) problematic views on ethical egoism and the like. > hilariously over the top These days I'm not sure anything can be so over-the-top that no-one will take it seriously.
Well, I'm glad to have read Atlas Shrugged, although I didn't find it philosophically convincing. It would be very frustrating to not be able to read it and just be stuck wondering what the Republicans seem to cite as an important text for understanding their worldview.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…
> but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development Frankly, we have little real idea what's psychologically appropriate for kids. Consider that over 65% of papers in psychology fail replication. I would be very skeptical of anyone claiming they know what's psychologically good for anyone.
You're probably right, but nonetheless, the original commenter's point stands about the state having literal and legal responsibility for peoples children. It makes sense to be conservative in deciding what material to put in the school library.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Local school districts frequently do this sort of thing. It sucks for the kids, but it is a good signal for you when you’re looking for a place to live, as the school board is controlled by provincial idiots.
Sometimes it's entire states.
That just makes it a stronger signal.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#175k-12 students are not adults. We ban and censor all sorts of things for the the underage crowd, look up CIPA. There are borderline pedophilia books available at school libraries. I've also seen several examples of incredibly racist CRT books in classrooms. I don't think young kids should have unfettered access to this stuff. They're not able to process it correctly. If communities are saying they do not want this is…
not to mention the same people in a huff over this are burning and banning dr seuss and huckleberry finn and tearing down statues of the founding fathers as racist.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s the context of those images? It seems perfectly appropriate for highschool.
I've seen people downplaying the contents book using arguments like "these kids are already looking at porn, so who cares?" Whatever, I don't have an issue with that. Been there, done that. But how about this one? What if you're one of the many kids who want to but can't get laid in high school? Seeing teenage sex normalized by the school itself could lead to all kinds of additional insecurities.
If you’re a teenager who is having an emotional, strongly negative response to seeing fictional acts of sexual behavior in a comic because you can’t have actual sex, that is a perfect opportunity for you to reach out to adults in your life so you can have a clearly sorted talk about how to have a healthy relationship with sex and intimacy.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#177A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…
> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas. I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway: 1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn'…
IMO - As a child or teenager you try out different personalities, ideas, etc, then look back, say "what was I thinking", and learn a bit about how your own mind works. Better then, when consequences are small for you and everyone else, than to delay it until adulthood.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#178A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…
The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…
I don't believe the article is denying the schools' right and responsibilities in protecting children from harm. It is just assuming as much as commonly accepted.
Then, it does the same with regards to the "harmfulness" of these books. Or, more specifically, it names some books (Beloved etc) as well as concepts (health education) in a way that assumes its audience will tend to agree that these aren't harmful to children.
That it doesn't necessarily extend that belief to all books is clear from the distinction it makes when it separates some books from others that have been "caught up in this net [such as] books about health education, teen pregnancy, civics, philosophy, religion,..."
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development Frankly, we have little real idea what's psychologically appropriate for kids. Consider that over 65% of papers in psychology fail replication. I would be very skeptical of anyone claiming they know what's psychologically good for anyone.
You're probably right, but nonetheless, the original commenter's point stands about the state having literal and legal responsibility for peoples children. It makes sense to be conservative in deciding what material to put in the school library.
""In carrying out searches and other disciplinary functions pursuant to such policies, school officials act as representatives of the State, not merely as surrogates for the parents, and they cannot claim the parents' immunity from the strictures of the Fourth Amendment."" (NJ v TLO)
Meaning: schools have the right (and responsibility) to take steps necessary for the safety of children, but those rights are rather limited compared to those of parents, because they must also satisfy the limits set by constitution for all acts of the state and its representative. Banning books is an excellent example since it is almost the textbook definition of a restriction of free speech at the same time as having exceptionally weak arguments for its necessity, ostensibly to prevent psychological harms, which is a dubious concept to begin with.
Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I really had Atlas Shrugged in mind, which is convincing enough to regularly show up on Republican booklists (and AFAIR at least one Supreme Court judge) and has all sorts of (my opinion) problematic views on ethical egoism and the like. > hilariously over the top These days I'm not sure anything can be so over-the-top that no-one will take it seriously.
Well, I'm glad to have read Atlas Shrugged, although I didn't find it philosophically convincing. It would be very frustrating to not be able to read it and just be stuck wondering what the Republicans seem to cite as an important text for understanding their worldview.
I think even Rand was aware of its limitation, which is why the book has an essentially magical ending -- the heroine arrives in utopia by accident when her plane crashes there. But having to reveal the actual process of getting there is precisely the failure of utopian ideologies.