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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

staceyoniot.com

281–290 of 375 posts

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#281
I've been on a minor hunt lately to see if I can find smart home light control which makes sense, or some technologies to put together which would.

The basic problem I've had is I've been dealing with adding new light switches in my house through old wall chases - this is miserable (or impossible). But in 2021, why do I need to pull 3+ wires to a light switch to get a light to control (and god help you if you need a dual 2-way switch - up to 6). Why can't I just run live/neutral?

The other problem is the excessive use of wifi: we have powerline ethernet, why can't communications be implemented as a low bandwidth wired protocol over a wiring system I already have?

My ideal IoT home automation would solve both of these: no wifi, use powerline ethernet (with a bridge unit somewhere for the automation), and let me go all in on decoupled switches and lighting. And then whoever does this, target selling it straight to electricians because we'd be talking huge cost-savings and simplifications for wiring up new builds, and retrofits could be handled the same.

Let me fully separate my control points and let's just commit to getting the basic technology right - if my car can be CANbus wired, why can't my house?

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a similar experience with ZWave, and definitely recommend Inovelli (I'm also a Zooz fan). I had everything on HA, but at the time they were changing _everything_ way too quickly for me. After the last time I'd lost my entire Zwave network setup, I figured it was a great time to try something now. So, now it's a single ~1k line javascript file that handles all my automation, built atop zwave2mqtt (hoping to mov…

That is exactly what I want to do for the same reason. Any chance you would be willing to share your JS code?

I'm not comfortable sharing the whole thing, since it's very specific to my house. But I may be able to come up with a much lighter version that could be shared.

No idea when I'll find the time, but if you want to email me (check my profile), I'll reach out when I find the chance to do so.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

There is the UL certification, but I doubt it covers software. That's the crux of the issue, isn't, that _mechanically_ everything is working fine, but something outside of the control of the unit (e.g. spotty wifi, internet connectivity issues) cause UX issues. In the end, whose fault is it?

Well spotty WiFi and internet connectivity issues probably aren't the homeowners fault either...

The fault probably lies with the ISP, the router manufacturer, or someone else. Let the gadget manufacturers guarantee pay out, and they can try to chase the ISP themselves. If the issue doesn't get fixed, they can simply say "IoT doorbell (reliability guarantee excludes use with Comcast)"

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#284

I've had a lot of success with z-wave devices in my home, hooked into Home Assistant. They seem more resilient than zigbee (and much more reliable than any of the bespoke wifi stuff) and are largely all interoperable. I've got a bunch of z-wave devices like plugs and thermostats, but it comes at a high cost. For lights I do use zigbee ones just because they're cheaper, but my Hue and IKEA mix do have communication is…

Comparable here, using mostly Zigbee (Hue, IKEA, Xiaomi and others) with Deconz RaspBee, which works great, although I do see communication issues from time to time. I have Zigbee lights and door/temp/motion sensors. I added Shelly modules behind my 'normal looking' wall switches on a local MQTT. This all comes together in a local NodeRED (on a Pi that also contains the RaspBee and runs the Deconz software and MQTT server). I use a few plugins heavily for input / output (MQTT, Deconz, etc), but I've got quite a few (reusable) function nodes as well with my own code.

Like you said, I can't see a 'normal' consumer do something comparable, locally without a technical background. It's all too fragmented, closed, clouded.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#285
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you would probably like the EdgeSwitch line of products better than Unifi. Cheaper, faster, and easier to manage if you are trying to do something specific.

I was thinking about trying EnGenius or even Cisco next, but I'd like to stay within the Unifi universe because of my investment in wifi access points and video cameras. I should definitely investigate the edgeswitch line! I sort of ignored them thinking that they were last generation, but I'm going to take a look.

If you're interested in spending a bunch of money buying stuff again, wifi 6e APs are trickling out from the usual vendors. If your local spectrum is congested, the new 6ghz band might be nice.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#287
I personally think that the 'smart home' is a very good concept and has great potential - and can bring benefits even today. This is specially true if you are not neurotypical or have any issues (like forgetfulness). I often forget to do thinks like turn off the coffee machine. My automation ensures that this is done(either by timer, or when I leave the house), that the security system arms when I'm off the house, proper lights are turned on and off, that the robo vacuum won't start until my 3d printer is done printing (it will also turn it off), will turn on air filters when the air quality drops, etc.

That said, the state of the industry is ridiculous. Wifi is extremely convenient and the way to go (IMHO) for the vast majority of devices. It's not well suited for some battery powered sensors due to power constraints - Zigbee works, so does Bluetooth LE. Or everything could just use Bluetooth for all I care. But those protocols are not the problem (despite the industry trying to push CHIP or whatever the new name is).

No, the problem is the software. The insistence on doing stuff in the Cloud when there's no reason to do so. All the incompatible protocols and setup hoops one have to jump. All the political and monetary bickering that causes companies to deprecate 'integrations' or otherwise break functions.

Look, most devices are a combination of switches (usually on and off, a freaking bit!), some numeric values coming from sensors. Maybe strings for good UX. That is it. How many different ways of flipping bits do we need? How complicated do we really have to make retrieving a device status or a temperature value?

I just need to be able to read some simple values and flip some bits back in response - using an encrypted channel. That's it. IF one wants to do this over the Cloud to control stuff remotely, fine. Every single device with software from unknown provenance wanting to phone home - and then forcing me to try to get different clouds to talk to one another?! No thank you.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#288
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re lucky or do Zwave in a small way. I spent a lot of money converting my last home to zwave and found tons of problems with it; incompatibility between the different devices from the same manufacturer; inconsistent implementation of standards by device type, etc. I am having a way better experience with Lutron Caseta (different problem is that I ran out of space on a single hub at 75 devices). The other big prob…

> The other big problem with smart home is that every company wants to own the ecosystem Nah, standards assist everyone. Thus Matter[0] is becoming a thing. It will be supported by pretty much everyone (Amazon, Apple, Google, Samsung SmartThings and the Zigbee Alliance). "Fail normal" is a good thing to keep in mind nevertheless.

I am quite skeptical that "Matter" (formerly CHIP?) will fix anything.

https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What hardware do you use? And how were you able to get hold of something that doesn't talk to the cloud? There's nothing like that in the shops here.

check out https://www.home-assistant.io/ Open source. You can be as fiddly or stable as you have tolerance for.

You can even buy their pre-installed box, ready to go.

It has some warts, but my automation would not be viable without it. I specially like the NodeRED integration - even if I think that NodeRED is quite quirky and %#@!% sometimes, it's still neat to be able to write automations without programming much. I do plenty of that on my day job. Also a great visual aid to explain to non-technical people.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#290
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my smart home stuff. My lights turn on in the morning, change color temperature at sunset, and turn off at night. Thermostats set to the right temperature/mode at night and in the morning depending on the forecast for the day. My garden is watered, but not if it's going to rain. When I turn on my TV, the lights turn off and the blinds close. Everything shuts down and locks when the family leaves, resumes when…

If you are connected to the internet, then your setup is not 100% rock solid and reliable.

No setup is.

How many nines of reliability does your home automation setup need anyway?

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