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As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

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Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#151

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Spooky23 wrote: post #116
quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

Local school districts frequently do this sort of thing. It sucks for the kids, but it is a good signal for you when you’re looking for a place to live, as the school board is controlled by provincial idiots.

Sometimes it's entire states.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#152

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #108
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the legislators intervening be permissible in your view if the legislators believe that the librarians are doing a poor job at curation? An example of this is the right's claim that many of these banned books are almost pornographic in nature and inappropriate for almost any age. From the right's perspective, the legislators are intervening because the librarians are failing at their curation and safety job.

>> An example of this is the right's claim that many of these banned books are almost pornographic in nature. I'm pretty sure illustrations of people having sex and an illustration of a younger child giving an older child oral sex falls into that category: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBdP1kYXoAA_c0T?format=jpg&name=... People lost their minds when a woman read several pages from the book "Gender Queer" by Maia Kobabe…

What’s the context of those images? It seems perfectly appropriate for highschool.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#153

Post by jfax »

erichocean wrote: post #123

Are "graphic novels" really expected to be given the same treatment as actual books? It's not like school libraries typically have movies for kids to check out and watch at home. If they did have movies, it's likely that anything "R" rated would be "banned" by educators—and I doubt anyone here would care. The graphic novels being "banned" can't be posted to Instagram or Facebook or network TV because: pornographic…bu…

Graphic novels are books.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#154

Post by Cpoll »

pram wrote: post #135
Cpoll wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas. I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway: 1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn'…

Having personally read some of Rand’s fiction as a teen (from my high school library no less!) I think you’d be hard pressed to find a reason to “ban” them. The narrative in Anthem, for example, is so hilariously over the top I’m not sure what the argument would be. It’s a Pol Pot “Year Zero” style civilization, and the randian superman subverts the established collectivist order by single handedly reinventing the li…

I really had Atlas Shrugged in mind, which is convincing enough to regularly show up on Republican booklists (and AFAIR at least one Supreme Court judge) and has all sorts of (my opinion) problematic views on ethical egoism and the like.

> hilariously over the top

These days I'm not sure anything can be so over-the-top that no-one will take it seriously.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#155

Post by Cpoll »

throwaway2077 wrote: post #141
Cpoll wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas. I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway: 1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn'…

book burning is just one manifestation of restricting the freedom of thought and expression, and it sounds you aren't against that.

Fair point, and I don't have a good counter-argument.

I think my problem, if anything, isn't that there's an excess of freedom of thought and expression so much as there's not enough counter-thought and counter-expression.

So my shaky position is stuck somewhere between what I've identified as the two evils: Book burning, and the uncritical dissemination and condoning of problematic ideas. (I'm aware there's a further problem here because I'm the one deeming things "problematic").

I also think I picked the wrong place to have this conversation. After all, TFA isn't talking about Ayn Rand, it's talking about "opposition to LGBTQIA material, the history of racism, and material that may cause discomfort to readers." These aren't things I would typically label as "problematic."

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#156

Post by iammisc »

shagie wrote: post #11
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #5

Nobody’s calling for banning books. They are calling for not using certain books in curriculum, which is very different and not allowing certain books is necessary for any school system. I wouldn’t want my kid to write “A kid’s version of Algebra” and then have it used in schools. I wouldn’t want a flat-earther to have his Science book in schools. Who wants Trump’s guide to Civics? That’s super different than “bannin…

> Nobody’s calling for banning books. They are calling for not using certain books in curriculum, which is very different and not allowing certain books is necessary for any school system. From the other day on NPR: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/11/1054798508/when-schools-ban-b... > Texas Gov. Greg Abbott joined Krause's efforts this week, sending his own letter to the Texas Education Agency asking it and other agencie…

Not all 'pornography' is equivalent. While I can see an argument for expression of certain viewpoints, a lot of pornography is just meant to appeal to baser instincts, and has a known negative effect on people. Not all books are equal. I don't understand the extremism in this regard around children's literature. In an adult library sure, but yes... children's books ought to be curated. This cannot be remotely controversial.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#157

Post by mensetmanusman »

Choice of books and ideas easily available is preference (ie all of politics is preference), especially in a library where space is zero sum relative to the 500 million books to choose from.

Get involved if you disagree, but don’t be surprised people disagree in such a diverse country.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#158

Post by iammisc »

shagie wrote: post #38
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that >40% of this country views flat-earth, LGBTQ studies, and CRT at the same level of regard? If they didn't, why the school board battles going on all over the place? As far as they are concerned, there is no gulf between them.

... and that is why the The Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine ( https://www.amazon.com/Gale-Encyclopedia-Medicine-Set/dp/141... ) is on the list of books being removed ( https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/94fee7ff93eff960... )

You can be pro-curation of content and against this particular list. I agree. This list is ridiculous. Schools should be able to hold these books in their collections (although I do see arguments for not purchasing some)

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#160

Post by jl2718 »

jowsie wrote: post #143
jl2718 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean banning books containing well-researched facts, which is commonly practiced in silence, or promoting fantastical fiction books about your political agenda by convincing kids that the evil censorship boogeyman is after them?

Could you give some examples of these well-researched fact containing books that are supposedly banned?

Sorry; not getting into flame wars about the unknowable details of an unrelated topic. It’s an epistemological black hole. But you can find plenty of examples from your favorite brand of fringe on a book site that truly doesn’t censor, such as z-lib. And by the way, “factual and well-researched” doesn’t imply complete truth, but probably some form of legitimate interest. For instance, there have been many books written from collected personal testimony of alien abduction, perfectly factual and well-researched from the second-person perspective, but probably not the only sources one should consult in the study of exoplanetary astronomy. There is a wide range of topics where it is the other way around too, where folklore is celebrated, and candid observation is suppressed. In fact, it seems that human nature prefers this naturally, and even scientists can only maintain objectivity within a very narrow range.
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