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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

staceyoniot.com

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Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#241
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my smart home stuff. My lights turn on in the morning, change color temperature at sunset, and turn off at night. Thermostats set to the right temperature/mode at night and in the morning depending on the forecast for the day. My garden is watered, but not if it's going to rain. When I turn on my TV, the lights turn off and the blinds close. Everything shuts down and locks when the family leaves, resumes when…

What hardware do you use? And how were you able to get hold of something that doesn't talk to the cloud? There's nothing like that in the shops here.

You can also reflash the firmware on a lot of smart plugs if they use ESP32, look up Tasmota.

I use Sonoff plugs, the first thing I do when I get one is solder headers on them and reflash their firmware - hey presto, no cloud

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#242
post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

Using an app or voice to control your lights is only rarely useful.

Having one switch control all your table lamps, floor lamps, and ceiling lights is useful. Being able to add new wall switches (really remotes) in new locations for ~$25 also nice (excluding the cost of the rest of the system, obviously).

A few years ago, we had no switches or light sources by the entry way; we had to stumble our way to a switch in the dark. I fixed that with remote controlled outlets at first and later upgraded to Hue bulbs and dimmers. In the bedroom, my wife and I both have remotes for the lights (though she actually prefers voice control, ironically).

We have a few useless wall switches that control outlets instead of lights; turning those into in-wall remotes makes it so we can control multiple lights and use the outlets for devices that need continuous power.

We also have our light bulbs automatically change brightness and color temperature based on the time of day. We get daylight-bright light during daylight hours and dim warm light in the middle of the night. It's really nice.

Another nice smart home feature: checking that the range is off. My wife used to stress about this, it's no longer an issue. Don't worry, you can only turn the thing OFF remotely, not on.

The smart speakers are mostly for music, checking the weather, and time. Occasionally for light control.

Smart/energy monitoring outlets we use mostly for tracking down energy hogs and reducing our energy bill.

The security and privacy stuff is a risk, but as long as you stick to major brands IMO the risk is overblown. Those brands are subject to a ton of scrutiny. Fly-by-night alphabet soup brands off Amazon or Alibaba are another matter.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#243
post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

If you need to pull out a device to control your smart home, you've done it wrong.

1) Motion sensors

* Our hallway lights turn on via motion and turn off automatically.

* My work desk lights turn off and on via a motion sensor.

Both apply the correct color temperature and brightness based on ambient light and the time of day, so that I don't get blinded buy 1100 lumen lights at 5000K when I go play a few rounds of $game at my desk.

Just having the bathroom lights turn on and off automatically is magical.

2) Voice control

We have a few Alexa routines programmed for the house:

* "Movie time": All lights off, TV and AppleTV turn on

* "TV Time": TV off, few lights near the TV turn off

* "Good morning": Lights at a reasonable level, Alexa tells us the weather forecast and traffic (well not anymore, we work remotely).

...and a bunch of others.

3) Wireless switches.

All of the above can be controlled via physical switches mounted around the house where practical - not where the wiring happens to be.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#244

Take the thing in your hands, install Home Assistant ( https://www.home-assistant.io/ ) and let Open Source rule your world. It works flawlessly, there is just a Himalaya steep learning curve and knowing Python helps when doing fancy automations with pyscript (there are integrated automations whihc are a pain in the bottom, and solutions such as Node Red). In all honesty, Home Assistant opens a huge amount of possibi…

I'm committed to not replacing any switches/plugs if it doesn't Just Work when the home assistant / hub goes away. My poor kids shouldn't have to wander around in the dark if my hass container craps the bed while I'm out of the house.

> My wife constantly wonders what she will do when I die and the whole thing goes south the day after.

Talking about life insurance is morbid, but.. if you have life insurance, try to either consider $5k of it set aside or try to increase your coverage by $5-10k, as a fund that would pay for an electrician to go around ripping out all the smarts from your home. As a yearly to-do, keep a one-page document up to date with two or three electricians you would consider qualified to do the work without ripping off your grieving spouse, and keep that in your "to my grieving spouse" binder.

If nothing else, consider the idea that they might have to sell the house, you wouldn't want them dealing with real estate showings where the light switches don't work.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#245
post #200

In that same time period, my "plant light" timer, a $15 mechanical item of a design unmodified since the 1970s, has worked flawlessly, requiring attention only when the clocks change or my schedule does. It has not informed Google, Amazon, or anyone else about its job or anything else in my home. It has generated no royalties nor invoked any support or ongoing maintenance costs. It has never needed a software upgrade…

I love my smart home stuff. My lights turn on in the morning, change color temperature at sunset, and turn off at night. Thermostats set to the right temperature/mode at night and in the morning depending on the forecast for the day. My garden is watered, but not if it's going to rain. When I turn on my TV, the lights turn off and the blinds close. Everything shuts down and locks when the family leaves, resumes when…

You describe it as some sort of heaven, and if that's your thing then (probably) good for you. It wouldn't be for me, I like actually doing things and see these automation as overpriced solution looking for problem that generation ago mostly didn't exist, while folks lived comparably happier lives.

Plus all the time invested into building and maintaining these setups can be measured by tons of fun/adventures missed in ones live. But that's my perspective, I incline more to OP' mindset of needing at most "plant timer".

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#246
post #225

I just built a vacation home from the ground up and specced the "smart" features myself and did so very carefully. I've learned the hard way because I was already "orphaned" when I bought my current primary residence which had a high-end 'state-of-the-art' home automation system that was designed into the walls by the original owner. Unfortunately, it was cutting-edge tech for 2001. The original manufacturer of the s…

I think your solution is good but paranoid in the wrong areas. You’re probably gonna get bit by 25 years from now is the dependency on current gen Wi-Fi. The thing you have to own is the transport layer and all the devices that directly interface with it. Then all you will ever need to replace is the bridge to your “control plane” — apps, HomeAssistant. The golden solution (for me) is RF. 100 years from now you will…

I actually agree with your assessment and did think about the issue you mention. I chose this imperfect set of trade-offs because I didn't want to DIY in-wall fixtures and, after reviewing the current tech and market and which "open" standards were being developed, I decided to go with an inexpensive shorter-term solution (~4 to 8 years). The dimmer switches are only $15 each delivered from Amazon (https://smile.amazon.com/Dimmer-Martin-Jerry-Compatible-Neut...) and under Tasmota are highly configurable to the extent of being able to communicate in a switch-to-switch private mesh.

Since I had to commit to hardware six months ago, I knew the kind of longer-term hardware I'd really prefer didn't quite exist yet - at least not at the multi-vendor, commodity-cost level. There are some interesting high-end, proprietary, single-source products as well as some cool experimental DIY & low-volume kit-type designs, using stuff like touchscreen displays and ESP32-type CPUs. I think this kind of flexible display/interaction end-point will be the most likely next inflection point but it will first need to go through the early-adopter Darwinian process sorts and then come down the price-curve to reach Shenzen-container, multi-vendor commodity pricing.

My choices were to either

A. Spend too much now making an early bet on something available today that probably wouldn't be a longer-term keeper.

B. Go with a traditional "dumb" dimmer for $6.50 each and upgrade in a few years.

C. Pay $15 each today on a shorter-term, standard-sized, replaceable "smart" solution that can fall back to a dedicated wifi subnet for control or, worst-case, be a stand-alone dimmer.

I decided to go with C. While I agree with your point that the wireless protocol world will eventually move on, I suspect that wifi as a protocol is so ubiquitous, so standard and so cheap that some form of backward compatibility may survive for decades through bridge devices. A likely contender for the next big multi-vendor standard in home automation is likely to be the ChIP-based standard being pushed by Google, Samsung, Apple and a couple hundred other companies. The standard has been finalized and the wireless will be based on both wifi and Zigbee (2.4ghz and 900 Mhz) as a basic required element, so there's a fair chance my current cheap "Shenzen-specials" will be adaptable through firmware since the vast majority of in-wall wireless stuff installed today is based on wifi or Zigbee. It's okay if they aren't because in my mind they are a short-term disposable solution anyway.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#247
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my smart home stuff. My lights turn on in the morning, change color temperature at sunset, and turn off at night. Thermostats set to the right temperature/mode at night and in the morning depending on the forecast for the day. My garden is watered, but not if it's going to rain. When I turn on my TV, the lights turn off and the blinds close. Everything shuts down and locks when the family leaves, resumes when…

What hardware do you use? And how were you able to get hold of something that doesn't talk to the cloud? There's nothing like that in the shops here.

I use KNX for the "important" lights. KNX is very reliable and completely decentralized, so it continues to work evern if the server crashes, but it is also very expensive. For all the utility lights, I use ZigBee. For irrigation, wifi+mqtt. Everything is controlled by openHAB, i need to check out HomeAssistant in the near future.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#248
post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

i’m replacing all my caseta and pico with dumb switches. the radio bits and the color matching are of utmost quality. the ergonomics of these devices however is exceptionally poor, and an example of market segmentation. (ra and ra2 provide the entire switch as a target).

zwave doesn’t come close to the reliability of lutron so dumb it shall be

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#249
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never think about light in my home, I flip the switch if I need it - lights seem like such a chore to my friends who have to issue commands to a speaker and that’s one of the few things this tech is supposed to be good at Pre-covid we used to leave the dog at home during the day (I now WFH so not an issue), but it gets dark at 3:30 here during the winter, meaning the dog is stuck sitting in the dark for 2 hours.…

> Philips Hue has routines for turning on lamps 30 minutes before sunset FWIW, mechanical timers have been able to do this for decades. 20+ years ago I had a mechanical timer that turned on my porch lights at sunset and off at 11pm. You just needed to configure your latitude so it knew when sunset was.

I'd love to see one of these work in Finland :)

Our sunset times vary from "sun never comes up" to "sun never goes down".

Practically any kind of sunset-based automation is completely useless for anything over here except maybe for some decorative outdoor lights.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#250
post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

Lutron is a shining example of how you do home automation right and nobody is taking note.
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