Live data from Hacker News

As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

blog.archive.org

71–80 of 263 posts

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think you'd find Ayn Rand in the average modern school library. Or a book that supports Trump, or a book that talks about socialism in an unflattering light. My daughter's ultra left wing school in Denmark has Atlas Shrugged, Trump: The Art of the Deal, and Gulag Archipelago. Are you suggesting that American schools are more left wing than a left wing school in Denmark? Also, I got Atlas Shrugged from my sch…

There are schools across America where, yes, I actually believe you would not find those books. Remember that Dr. Seuss , benign of benign, having multiple books removed from school libraries is well-documented. EDIT: I was wrong about this - it was the estate and a few vocal libraries - but most libraries did not remove.

[deleted]

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#72
post #57

[flagged]

> The problem we have is the destruction of the americans values...

I agree, inasmuch as the American value being destroyed here are freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The latter of which should, IMO, encompass freedom from religion. But in this case, states are censoring books that go against the values of a particular religion; much like the abortion bans. If they were Muslim, there would be a deafening uproar about Sharia Law. But since they're Christian, it's just "American values." I call bullshit.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#73

[flagged]

> Baloney. Yes, I'm sure we can find some 1 in a 1,000,000 exceptional case of some bright student from a marginalized community who just couldn't obtain some obscure reference book in their high school library because conservatives had "banned it" (i.e. chosen not to include it in their limited selection due to content concerns). However, I find it hard to believe that 99.9999% of students, who probably haven't even used their public school's library more than a few times in their whole life, would be absolutely unable to obtain anything they could possibly want, for the price they already spend in a week on video games or music.

That is not the point. The point is that you don't want legislators, left or right-wing, picking the books that students can access in the library system of their school. School librarians are the ones who do that. It's a decentralized system that works extraordinarily well without political interference, and has done so for hundreds of years.

> Examples like this apply to like 0.001% of the population, and instead of spending tens of millions of dollars and years fighting for insanely insecure voting rules...

This is wholly irrelevant to the topic being discussed, which is legislatively banning books from public library systems.

> Likewise, I have never ever heard of any adult using a public school library (e.g. high school or elementary school) to obtain books or other media for themselves.

No, students use those libraries. Students that go to public schools. Adults usually go to their area's library systems. I suggest you check out your local library. You might find it stocked full of books that are interesting. And you can check them out, for free!

The only takeaway for me from a lot of this discussion has been that a lot of people don't seem to have much of an idea about libraries in general, school or public; or the role they play in society.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that librarians already provide a "SafeSearch" by curating material at libraries. This is more similar to if Texas tried to mandate that Google SafeSearch at libraries should now include a ban on any LGBTQ images. Contrary to what you might imagine, checking out and shelving books is not the only things librarians do – they also curate and trim material, a bit like cultivating a garden. Libraries ar…

Would the legislators intervening be permissible in your view if the legislators believe that the librarians are doing a poor job at curation? An example of this is the right's claim that many of these banned books are almost pornographic in nature and inappropriate for almost any age. From the right's perspective, the legislators are intervening because the librarians are failing at their curation and safety job.

Yes, that would be a perfectly reasonable legislation. The burden would be on the legislators to clearly articulate their viewpoint, and provide reasonable justification for why those materials are inappropriate for any age.

Currently, some of the 850 "suspicious titles" they are "looking into" include books like We Are All Born Free: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights in Pictures [1]. This does not lead me to conclude that their chief concern is safety and curation.

----------------------------------------

[1] https://www.npr.org/2021/10/28/1050013664/texas-lawmaker-mat...

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#75
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody’s calling for banning books. They are calling for not using certain books in curriculum, which is very different and not allowing certain books is necessary for any school system. From the other day on NPR: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/11/1054798508/when-schools-ban-b... > Texas Gov. Greg Abbott joined Krause's efforts this week, sending his own letter to the Texas Education Agency asking it and other agencie…

Well then, again, would you want a flat-earther science manual in the school library? Schools exercising discretion is not 1940s Germany book bans and the two are not comparable.

>Well then, again, would you want a flat-earther science manual in the school library?

I'd be fine with that so long as it's in the fiction section.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#77

[flagged]

> Baloney. Yes, I'm sure we can find some 1 in a 1,000,000 exceptional case of some bright student from a marginalized community who just couldn't obtain some obscure reference book in their high school library because conservatives had "banned it" (i.e. chosen not to include it in their limited selection due to content concerns). However, I find it hard to believe that 99.9999% of students, who probably haven't even…

[flagged]

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#79
As a high schooler I loved the banned books list. My English teacher had a cabinet full of old copies of books they weren’t allowed to teach any more for one reason or another. She lent me The Chocolate War, Catcher in the Rye…

Before that, in elementary school, some of our books had sections blacked out for being too racy. First thing I did was head straight to the local library and read those passages specifically.

censorship made me an avid reader.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#80
post #57

[flagged]

You should ask yourself why it is that American academics seem to almost universally hold left wing freduo-marxist-post-modernist views. I love to bash on fashionable nonsense as much as the next HN reader, but it may actually have to do with there being something essential to the process of education that finds those who pursue large amounts of it to favor egalitarian social and economic politics.

I look at the academy being leftist as a sign that they are genuine about education being a force for equality. Sure, sometimes the left goes "too far", but the principles behind it are the only ones compatible with modern academia.

Conservatives rejection of academic philosophy is one of the reasons why the "parallel" institutions of conservative universities are a laughing stock in the USA and around the world. I trigger conservatives sometimes by reminding them that they can't code because they hate liberal education and refuse to go to anywhere with a prestigious CS program. If a Marxist professor at Berkeley is what keeps trump from having effective web developers on his team, than it looks like I just became a Marxist...

Post reply on HN