ITT: people trying to convince themselves the COVID mRNA therapeutic is net beneficial for the general population to take.
How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
301–310 of 330 posts
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an unnecessarily sanctimonious post in my opinion. If you're in favour of fresh restrictions then for how long? To what extent? How much collateral damage in terms of mental health, education, the economy, social cohesion etc are you willing to accept? Implying people are selfish after two years of sacrifice is a rather churlish angle, in my opinion people advocating for continuing restrictions need to put nu…
Sigh, you just don't get it do you? There are other people in the world. Not one more death. Ever. If I could save an elderly grandparent by letting you die or your kids go uneducated or the environment get destroyed by plastic wastes, I would. Because it's not about me or you, it's about everyone else. How many more times do we have to explain this before you people get it???
It's been 2 years now, you're beating a dead horse. Time to look in the mirror.
> Not one more death. Ever.
This is insane. First of all this is an unrealistic/impossible goal. People die all the time. Dying is normal. Especially for elderly people. There's no way to stop people from dying from Covid, even if 100% of people were vaccinated. Get used to it.
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#303Maximum death rate for all age groups with Moderna, which at least according to these plots provides the lowest death rate, is at 0.8/100_000 in August 2021 for all age groups. Maximum death rate for the unvaccinated of age 12-17 is at 0.17/100_000, for age 18-29 it is 0.76/100_000, also in August 2021. So even unvaccinated younger people (age < 30) are better off than the average vaccinated Joe. The thing is, so far…
If you are under 30, it appears your risk of death is low regardless of your status, but you will not forever be under 30, and perhaps you know some over-30 for whom the difference in death rate is important? Even if there's no one you care about who is over 30, to the extent that vaccination also reduces your risk of infecting others, it is polite to your society to be vaccinated. Perhaps you get no great benefit, b…
I was lying in bed for two days until I self-diagnosed with appendicitis and decided to go to the hospital. Turned out I was just in time. What I mean is I won't seek medical help unless absolutely possible (I live in EU countries where medical care is free). Due to this mindset (whether or not you think it's stupid, I don't really care) I'm simply not going to subscribe to having two boosters per year for the rest of my life. I've had two jabs now but as it looks like now I'm probably soon gonna start putting my immune system to work (and travel less as a result I suppose).
There are studies indicating a previous infection provides a stronger and longer lasting response than the vaccine, although this is not definite yet - Israelis and the CDC have made opposing conclusions on this topic.
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
That perspective is only accurate egocentrically. If you look at population-level epidemiology you will find vaccines inhibit viral spread.
> you will find vaccines inhibit viral spread Is this true? Countries like Singapore and Israel are seeing huge spikes in cases despite having some of the highest vax rates. My suspicion is that vaccines have the downside of suppressing symptoms, thus making the vaxxed more likely to spread covid without knowing it.
Or Gibraltar which is 100% vaccinated.
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
That age group is too wide to make a meaningful comparison without standardising for age. Less than 10% of under-18s and less than 60% in the 18-24 age group have been fully vaccinated, whereas it's more than 80% for the 55-59 group. The unvaccinated population in that age group is significantly younger than the vaccinated population. As you would expect, older people tend to die more often. This is also mentioned in…
You could say the same for the covid death rate: generally saying that it is a deadly pandemic is misleading, because it disproportionately kills old and sick people, and those tend to die more often Is the average covid death rate age adjusted?
I don't understand your argument. When we're comparing "overall death rate in a world without COVID" to "death rate in a world with COVID", we're looking at the same population. We don't need to adjust for age if we're looking at the same population.
This kind of misconception is so common it even has its own name: Simpson's paradox. It's laughable to think that the vaccinated population, compared to unvaccinated, is dying at the rate suggested by these numbers and no one is ringing the alarm.
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sigh, you just don't get it do you? There are other people in the world. Not one more death. Ever. If I could save an elderly grandparent by letting you die or your kids go uneducated or the environment get destroyed by plastic wastes, I would. Because it's not about me or you, it's about everyone else. How many more times do we have to explain this before you people get it???
It's been 2 years now, you're beating a dead horse. Time to look in the mirror. > Not one more death. Ever. This is insane. First of all this is an unrealistic/impossible goal. People die all the time. Dying is normal. Especially for elderly people. There's no way to stop people from dying from Covid, even if 100% of people were vaccinated. Get used to it.
I think the parent might have been a tad sarcastic!
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there should be next to no behavior modification expected. So, there are a few things here. Purely from an individual point of view, for the average vaccinated (and especially the average boosted person), this is probably largely true. And indeed if the whole population was vaccinated then this would probably largely be true for everyone. But the elephant in the room is the hospitals. If rates are high enough that…
Why haven't governments been working hard at increasing capacity in terms of ventilators and hospital beds and other needed equipment, since March 2020? Back then governments actually did that, and set up emergency beds. I know that there's a shortage of personnel, but it just seems that this would've been something to work towards since the beginning. I don't know what is practically needed from the personnel to nur…
> Why haven't governments been working hard at increasing capacity in terms of ventilators and hospital beds and other needed equipment, since March 2020? Back then governments actually did that, and set up emergency beds.
Many of them have. In general, equipment isn't the problem today in rich countries; it's staffing.
> I don't know what is practically needed from the personnel to nurse If they're in ICU (which is the main concern), multiple specially trained nurses per bed, plus various doctors and other support staff.
I'm not quite following the distinction you're making here between young and old; the main relevant distinction is ICU (mostly either unvaccinated or immunocompromised) or non-ICU (most vaccinated patients of all ages who require hospitalization land here; also lots of unvaccinated). Many countries are seeing fall-offs in the numbers of elderly people in ICU as the boosters go down the list, but ICU numbers are still growing.
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
"the fact that that vaccines have been proven effective for over 100 years" Even in the case of Covid, where people who are vaccinated are still prone to carrying, suffering from, and spreading the disease? I wonder if your sentiment will change after the vaccines pass FDA approval.
The vaccine I took has already been FDA approved: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-appr... Even if my sentiment was to change (it's not, vaccines work), it's not going to be from a comment on a social media website.
Are you sure that's the right one? Comirnaty.com currently states:
"Comirnaty® has the same formulation as the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine"
Yet a previous version clarified that these two products are legally distinct, and even contain certain undisclosed differences:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Zl3xD0...
"COMIRNATY® (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is also known as Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine*
On December 11, 2020, the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) authorized the emergency use of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 16 of years and older. On August 23, 2021, COMIRNATY® (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA)* received FDA approval.
The licensed COMIRNATY® vaccine has the same formulation as the authorized vaccine Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and the products can be used interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct, with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness."
Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's been 2 years now, you're beating a dead horse. Time to look in the mirror. > Not one more death. Ever. This is insane. First of all this is an unrealistic/impossible goal. People die all the time. Dying is normal. Especially for elderly people. There's no way to stop people from dying from Covid, even if 100% of people were vaccinated. Get used to it.
I think the parent might have been a tad sarcastic!
Eeeeh damnit, looks like you're right. Didn't even read the whole comment, got triggered right at the beginning. :D