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New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

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Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#121
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the franchisee who pays for repairs. Of course it was McD's idea. They make a cut.

I doubt they make more from repairs than by selling ice cream made by functional machines.

True, but ice cream is expensive. Soda and fries are cheap. Burgers and ice cream get people into the store where they buy soda and fries. And I’m sure many a person has gone to McDonalds wanting ice cream and upon learning the machine is down, decided to get a drink and fries instead.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Better" for whom? McDonald's is massively successful with $200 billion market cap and its stock essentially only goes straight up. The franchisees have always had gripes with corporate, always want to save a few pennies, but these arguments are tiny in the grand scheme... most franchisees are also enormously successful and fantastically rich. Nobody is forcing you to go to McDonald's, stick with INO if it makes you…

No doubt. I am not saying that McDoanlds is unsuccessful, rather that by customer satisfaction surveys In and Out wins. They also have, perhaps, a less scalable model of business and so can never grow to McDonalds size while also maintaining that quality. Interestingly, Chick-fil-a has learned to scale and maintain quality.

This is just an opinion but CFA does not scale well. In my experience overall quality and service at CFA has dropped considerably, and not just at new stores, but older ones as well. Part of the issue is that CFA does not allow owners to own multiple stores, so every new store has a rookie on top. Well-trained, but not experienced.

Every INO is company-owned, overall I think it manages to keep quality pretty high at all it's stores. Of course part of that is due to the extremely limited menu, and also that INO has never been known for fast service. INO basically tells customers up front, we aren't convenient and we aren't fast and we don't sell anything except burgers... that's 3 areas of potential customer dissatisfaction that they take off the table. All that is left is price, which is good not great, and taste/quality, which, to its credit, INO is pretty fanatical about. Edit: and cleanliness/service, also strong points for INO

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#123

I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting - there's assertion that the ice cream machine manufacturer is copying features of the competitor's device, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and, in the absence of patent protection (the word "patent" is not mentioned in the article) absolutely permissible; and there's some assertion of "stealing trade secrets" without asserting any actual compromise o…

"There was a concerted effort to not only obtain and copy our device and follow everything we were doing, but then also, when it hit a critical mass, to actually put us out of business,"

That is NOT market competition...at all and it is 100% shady. Competition is "I make something, you make something better". It's not "You make something. I make something to make it better. YOU try to put me out of business by LEGAL means." That is not competition.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#124
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If McDonald's want's to error on the side of caution, isn't that their prerogative?

Problem is McDonald's isn't paying for all the unnecessary service calls, it is the restaurant owner that have to buy the McDonald's mandated machines that end up paying. So you have McDonald's which has no incentive to change things, Taylor which profits from the situation since their devices are mandated and the restaurant owners who have to foot the bill for hundreds of pointless service calls.

But what does McDonald's gain from the PR backlash? Is there some perpetual contract between McDonald's and Taylor, and they just screwed up by buying a worse model? You'd think that the corporate overlords would perfer the machine to be working so they make money from the sales...

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, 1. and 2. is about contracts between McDonalds and their franchisees, so if a franchise owner feels unfairly harmed by this restriction, then they can sue McDonalds , it's not something about which Kytch should be able to sue Taylor. And, once again, it's perfectly reasonable and very common for franchise agreements to mandate certain suppliers for some products, goods and services, and the close ties don't mak…

The copying invalidates the claim that the original device was harmful. It was safe enough that they decided to literally copy it. Unless they can provide contemporaneous evidence that they felt there was a specific aspect of it that was harmful. At this point it seems like the only reason they said it was harmful was to avoid franchisees from using it, which would quite clearly qualify as defamation.

> It was safe enough that they decided to literally copy it.

They "copied" parts of it. We don't know they "copied" it all. I don't know how the device could be harmful, but presumably the harmful parts were not "copied".

Note that i used quotes around copied. I wouldn't use that term because it implies something that is protected by copyright and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been following this super closely but I think you're missing an entire angle of this. The copying part is just a symptom, the real issue was that 1. McDonald's forced all franchise owners to use this machine that would break often, and could only be fixed by this other company McDonalds had close ties to. 2. McDonald's didn't allow franchise owners to allow this other tool that allowed franchise owners to k…

Well, 1. and 2. is about contracts between McDonalds and their franchisees, so if a franchise owner feels unfairly harmed by this restriction, then they can sue McDonalds , it's not something about which Kytch should be able to sue Taylor. And, once again, it's perfectly reasonable and very common for franchise agreements to mandate certain suppliers for some products, goods and services, and the close ties don't mak…

> Well, 1. and 2. is about contracts between McDonalds and their franchisees, so if a franchise owner feels unfairly harmed by this restriction, then they can sue McDonalds, it's not something about which Kytch should be able to sue Taylor.

A contract between two parties can unfairly harm a 3rd party. Especially if one of the two parties is abusing its market power to push anticompetitive clauses. For example requiring "authorized" car mechanics to buy only overpriced Ford-branded repair tools. This way Ford uses its car marketshare to push into the repair tool market. Tool manufacturers that don't have a car manufacturer backing them simply can't compete.

Of course Ford would probably argue that the markets are related, and that it has a legitimate interest in ensuring its mechanics use adequate tools. That only its own tools qualify as good enough is just a big coincidence..

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#128
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One part of this I don't understand is why would McDonald's benefit from their franchises constantly needing their ice cream machines serviced.

Mcdonalds doesn't make money selling hamburgers. It makes money leasing real estate, and equipment to franchisees.

True, but franchises only stay franchises because they are making money. McDonalds in general tries to ensure that franchises make money. They won't let you get a franchise if you they don't think it will be good for all. All includes other franchises in the area - there are only a few cases where there is a McDonalds "near" another, and most are owned by the same person. (The only cases I know of is the original McDonalds has a bigger one across the street because the original is too small for the traffic and would be closed without the historical significant; and a case where one is inside a mall while the other is outside, and thus get different traffic)

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen them provide value for money here in Europe compared to what was already available. What boosted them - and killed a lot of the local competition - was that tourists seemed to prefer them. We had plenty of fast food here that was quite ok before then.

Here in Germany, we still have a lot of other fast food, like the local Döner shops, or local "Asian" shops selling mostly Chinese, Thai and/or Vietnamese dishes (usually their menus are a mix), or pizza-to-go places or the good old "Currywurstbude" (selling Currywurst of course, but usually things like Schnitzel and even burgers as well). Even my own minor city (about 250k people) also has a lot of other fast food (…

McDonalds in the US is generally cheaper than the same in the rest of the world. The company decided they don't like being the value option and so raised prices trying to seem premium.

I don't eat there at home, I'm not interested in trying them in other countries.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting Hard disagree. I'm finding this saga fascinating. You don't think Taylor lying to Wired journalists, and being called out for doing so, is interesting?

I have always found our putting up with Corporate PR lies so crazy. This wasn’t a stretch of the truth, or a belief what they were saying was true and missed a single internal email. Taylor’s statement was knowingly completely untrue. Say what you want about the China social credit system but if there was a way the associated press could blackball Taylor/the spokesperson for Taylor from ever publishing another statem…

No reason to go so far. Just prepend "documented liar" to every instance of "Taylor spokesperson".
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