The unbearable fussiness of the smart home • Hacker News Board

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#41

Post by hirundo » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

harshaw wrote: post #37

I invested in Z-wave light switches that are marked as GE but in reality manufactured by Jasco. The problem is that for an earlier generation of these devices a power surge / dip could fry the electronics, causing me to replace several of these switches over the years. This more speaks to the idea of long term reliability of electronics for devices that you want to replace very infrequently. On the software end I use…

I had a zwave light switch that randomly became a disco strobe generator three days after a brown out, no extra charge! It started flickering the main kitchen light several times per second ... while turned off. I had to shut down the power to stop it.

About 1 in 4 of the $40+ switches have failed, but that was the most spectacular.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#42

Post by u10242 » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

input_sh wrote: post #26

vnxli wrote: post #6

This is entirely on the author. Sure these vendors make awful products and poorly maintain them - but nobody is forcing anyone to buy them or integrate them into their house. I have yet to hear, or especially see, these devices make anybody’s life easier than doing the task manually. I never think about light in my home, I flip the switch if I need it - lights seem like such a chore to my friends who have to issue co…

> I have yet to hear, or especially see, these devices make anybody’s life easier than doing the task manually. Let's fix that, shall we? I have a Philips Hue system and also a physical switch[0] that I can move around. In my hallway and my kitchen (high traffic rooms) lights turn on via motion detection, making it absolutely unnecessary to ever turn touch a physical plug (with my wet hands after washing the dishes f…

This setup really sounds great and very involved.

But how do you turn the lights off again? Timeout? Not detecting any motion? Also, do you have any pets?

As for dimming the lights, I'm sure it looks impressive and also dramatic. But I've been able to go to bed in time for more than 40 years just fine. Also, what if you do want to stay up later?

Which, I think, is the gist of the first comment: You can do all these things, but they don't improve the current status and thus mostly serve as recreational activity.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#43

Post by prepend » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:50 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

For me, the voice control is very convenient. Pulling out an app is not.

For example, when I come downstairs and say “computer lights on” it’s easier than flipping two switches and turning on two lamps.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#44

Post by dboreham » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:51 PM UTC

I can remember discussing when household appliances would be networked, back in the 1980s. I would never have predicted that in 2021 almost every appliance+ would have a networking capability, but that said capability would have been added by the manufacturer as a way to get the purchaser's email address so they could spam them and sell their information.

+ I recently bought: an air fryer and a sous vide heater. Both support WiFi and apps (the air frier won't even turn on until you pair it with the app). Neither provides any meaningful networked functionality.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#45

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:54 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

I could be less wasteful in nearly everything I do, but sending a command around the globe to flip a light switch seems extremely wasteful.

Don't know if I would use the adjective "smart" compared to a switch.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#46

Post by asxd » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

yholio wrote: post #23

I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates over the internet and is critical for performing some task or using some basic functionality of the house; especially one that has a well known, highly stable and ergonomic traditional mode of interaction - controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc. We…

Honestly. I may have just not heard the right sales pitch, but at the moment a smart home is a clear case of "if it's not broken don't fix it." I'd like my software issues to be minimal after 5pm!

Like you allude to, I'm sure there will come a time where the effort is appropriately rewarded for a grump like me, and I'm grateful there are folks out there working and struggling to improve this.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#47

Post by vidanay » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

edent wrote: post #3

A typical "conversation" in my home goes like this: "Alexa... Turn on the downstairs lights... sigh Alexa, turn on all the downstairs lights... deep sigh Alexa, downstairs lights one hundred percent." Then, if I'm lucky, Alexa will convince the Philips Hue to flick on a dozen lights. When everything works - it is subtle magic. When it doesn't, it's obviously a load of poorly debugged JSON parsers with finickity wifi…

You forgot.... I forgot I had to physically turn off the lamps last night because Google told me the devices were not available when I went to bed.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#48

Post by bluGill » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #27

jaywalk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a "standard" light switch that is also controllable via Z-wave, which doesn't require Internet access or Wi-Fi or anything like that? Which is what most of the switches in my house are, and really what a proper smart home should be using.

The "Z-wave" function would never be used in my house so it would just be adding cost. Considerable cost at that - a plain white plastic light switch is £1.99, and the "Z-wave" ones I can see on Amazon are all around £20-£40!

Are you sure? The normal switches should be the normal way. But sometimes I've realized I left a basement light on and didn't want to walk downstairs to flip the switch.

There are also odd niches. I have an air compressor in a far corner of my shop (for noise reasons) with pipes running to where I need air. I want to control that without having to walk across the shop. (So far I don't have this because finding a switch that control a multi-horsepower induction motor is hard - most top out an 1/4 horse)

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#49

Post by gambiting » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #43

rwmj wrote: post #11

Has to be said I don't understand "smart devices" one bit. I simply don't understand how pulling out a phone and launching an app is preferable to an ordinary light switch. In fact I would say it's in every respect worse. And I don't want something that sits in the room listening to everything I say and uploading some unknown part of that to an unknown cloud service.

For me, the voice control is very convenient. Pulling out an app is not. For example, when I come downstairs and say “computer lights on” it’s easier than flipping two switches and turning on two lamps.

So as an example - I don't have any voice control in my house, would hate to have it, but then all my lightbulbs are app controlled - just means I don't have to do the usual "tour around the house" in the evening switching every single light off, I get in bed, then on my phone click one button and everything switches off. It's very convenient.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#50

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

123pie123 wrote: post #5

I love programming ESP32 arduinos - connecting stuff up. but I will never make my home 'smart' - not with closed or open sourced. My standard way of thinking is - can I help someone in my family to fix it or replace it, if it was to go wrong over the phone ... whilst I'm out drinking and drunk. Because given enough time this seems to pop up again and again with anything in the house - and I do not go out drinking oft…

Some cheap oversized relays that activate with a small delay to each other would make turning on lights much more dramatic. Also a random function for when you watch horror movies or want to get rid of guests.