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I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

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Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#171

Post by raffraffraff »

solatic wrote: post #162
DeathArrow wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What it doesn't do well is spaff money indiscriminately at any old idiot with an idea. Different philosophies. In US you throw money at ten stupid ideas hoping that even nine will be dead, one will be successful and see extreme growth, making you very rich. It's more of a gambler's approach. I don't know if studies were made but I suspect US based startups who survive to see a large growth while in EU even the growt…

> It's more of a gambler's approach. Wrong. The cultural difference comes from differing appetites for risk. VC's aren't gambling on their portfolio companies, they expect each and every one of them to turn into rocket ships. If there's no potential to become a rocketship, they don't invest, simple as that. Stupid ideas don't get investment. That VCs understand that it is highly unlikely that each portfolio company w…

I can't say I agree with either of you 100%. For example, your statement that VCs expect each and every one of their investments to turn into rocket ships? Nah. If they don't know that a % of their portfolio will fail, then they're idiots. Also, FOMO. Any time there's a new hot technology, VCs soil themselves trying to get a piece of the action (AI, I'm looking at you). So they end up investing in start-ups that probably won't succeed (BUT IF THEY DO, RIGHT???)

I definitely agree that it's all about appetite for risk. I'm not sure you disagree with each other fundamentally, you're just watching from different sides and wording it accordingly. Some people buy stocks for long term investment, some people short sell, and some bet their house on a hand of poker. I'm sure they would have a bar fight if you got them talking about risk appetite.

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#173

Post by DeathArrow »

Ragnarokk wrote: post #36
mg wrote: post #7

Are there any European websites in the Alexa top 50? https://www.alexa.com/topsites For all I know, Europe mostly missed the internet. Will the same happen with AI, data centers, solar, crypto and biotech?

It is kind of biased if you take global raw data as the US and China have a bigger share of global internet users. Baidu is 6th but I doubt that it is highly frequented by American or Europeans. However, the problem shows when you search by country. Top visited sites in Europe are still American.

US is exporting it's recent culture trough Hollywood, music, news stories, Internet, while Europe does not.

I believe there are more Europeans who know how life in Pittsburgh is compared to Americans who know how life in Torino is.

Europeans are willing to try new tech originated in US while Americans would be more reticent to use new tech originated in Europe.

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#174

Post by heurisko »

roomey wrote: post #59
agent008t wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine, but my point is there is no reason for Brexit to be a net negative when it comes to the funding of PhDs - if anything, it offers an opportunity to be more effective at funding. Same when it comes to the specific issue of access to talent - nothing in principle stopping the UK from making it extremely easy for talent to come to the UK.

The point is that there was both scales of economy due to the Erasmus program and a lot of pan European research grants.. Being able to pull from a Europe wide talant pool was a huge benefit to the UK and her universities. So there was massive, irreplaceable benefits just for universities lost due to the Brexit project. Along with that Brexit has cost the UK a ton of money.. this net contributer stuff was literal pro…

> Along with that Brexit has cost the UK a ton of money.. this net contributer stuff was literal propaganda.

The fact that the UK was a net contributor to the EU is uncontroversial [1]. Please cite sources if you're making a drastic claim otherwise.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#175

Post by michaelt »

solatic wrote: post #162
DeathArrow wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What it doesn't do well is spaff money indiscriminately at any old idiot with an idea. Different philosophies. In US you throw money at ten stupid ideas hoping that even nine will be dead, one will be successful and see extreme growth, making you very rich. It's more of a gambler's approach. I don't know if studies were made but I suspect US based startups who survive to see a large growth while in EU even the growt…

> It's more of a gambler's approach. Wrong. The cultural difference comes from differing appetites for risk. VC's aren't gambling on their portfolio companies, they expect each and every one of them to turn into rocket ships. If there's no potential to become a rocketship, they don't invest, simple as that. Stupid ideas don't get investment. That VCs understand that it is highly unlikely that each portfolio company w…

Well, the line between a risky investment and a stupid investment isn't always obvious.

If my business plan is to make wifi-enabled juicing machines that cost $400 and only work on proprietary, DRMed packets I sell at a huge margin - great investment? Or stupid investment?

If my business plan is to make a $2,000 stationary bicycle, when most competing products cost If I'm going to take out long cheap leases on office space, spruce them up a bit and sell short expensive leases? And some of the long leases will actually be from the CEO who personally owns some office buildings - great investment? Or stupid investment?

What if I run a website that lets strangers talk to each other, and I have a lot of users, barely any revenue, decades of losses, and I have no plan to make a profit. The users hate ads. Great investment? Or stupid investment?

It turns out some investments that seem dumb have worked out much better than I would have expected. Others not so much...

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#176

Post by clement_b »

goldcd wrote: post #18

I work for a company head-quartered in one continent, listed on another and I work in a third (the UK) - and sales are based all over. Not for one moment saying there aren't local issues/idiosyncrasies - but I'm unsure how moving your company solves them, and article seems to overlook all manner of problems: Aren't you going to lose staff when you move? Is everybody going to have to get up really early to talk to Eur…

Completely agree.

The grass is always greener, and moving to NYC will not come without challenges. However, post-Brexit UK is problematic on the skilled worker front for startups. Before, many European tech workers converged to London to work in startups (or ended up there). This seems to be happening much less now due to multiple reasons [0]. Overall, I think Brexit removed one of the main benefits of being based in the UK: being in that special EU English-speaking country that moves faster and better than the rest of the EU, yet, is part of it and greatly benefits from this setup. Now, you're left with Ireland, a beautiful country but probably hard to attract talents at scale in Dublin if you're not a big tech.

[0] purely subjective based on personal history. I'm currently working remote for a London-based startup and have the most challenging time hiring. It was easier pre-Brexit. I moved back to my home country in 2020, fearing the covid restriction x Brexit restrictions combo in the mid-term. The result of my (partly Brexit-induced) move is that my next gig will probably not be UK-based. I know I'm not alone in that situation, and I know we don't get CVs anymore from people ready to jump on the next plane to Gatwick to start a job in London. I wonder how many years we'll need to see this trend confirmed and who will be the real winners. Paris? Amsterdam? Berlin? Barcelona? All of them, hopefully!

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#177

Post by Symbiote »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #138
ageitgey wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. One day at a time. But in all seriousness, a good co-founder and team. Also, we started the company during COVID which I think made the VCs less worried a about a full remote situation. 2. US citizen but UK tax resident. So two income tax returns. It's a pain, but thankfully the tax treaty means one offsets the other and it works out in the end. 3. Personally want to live in London

Is there anything that specifically prompted you to live in London in place of other cities like Paris, Seoul, Tokyo, or areas elsewhere in the US and the rest of North America? Given what I've read on tax rates, incomes, and QoL (especially after Brexit) it doesn't seem economically advantageous to live there as a tax resident, especially with FATCA hanging over your head.

The English language is probably a big draw.

I doubt Brexit's effect on QOL can yet be separated from Covid.

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#178

Post by ageitgey »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #138
ageitgey wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. One day at a time. But in all seriousness, a good co-founder and team. Also, we started the company during COVID which I think made the VCs less worried a about a full remote situation. 2. US citizen but UK tax resident. So two income tax returns. It's a pain, but thankfully the tax treaty means one offsets the other and it works out in the end. 3. Personally want to live in London

Is there anything that specifically prompted you to live in London in place of other cities like Paris, Seoul, Tokyo, or areas elsewhere in the US and the rest of North America? Given what I've read on tax rates, incomes, and QoL (especially after Brexit) it doesn't seem economically advantageous to live there as a tax resident, especially with FATCA hanging over your head.

Different people like different places?

London is a beautiful city with high QoL if you live in a nice part. Much better transit and walk-ability than anywhere in the US except Manhattan. Same language and similar culture for kids in school. Very high quality schools if you live in a good area. Closer timezone to the US than Asia. The government systems are much easier to navigate for an English-speaking American than somewhere like France. Universal healthcare and much lower obvious social issues (i.e. homelessness) than California. Easy and cheap to travel around Europe (Paris is a day trip). Lots of people from all over the world in London. Beautiful cycling in the countryside. Lots of arts and culture in my own language. Great comedy scene and music scene. Endless history to explore.

Other people prefer different places. Lots of places are great. London is a great fit for us.

FACTA has zero impact on my life. Maybe it annoys my bank, but I'm sure they have long figured out how to deal with it. I spend 5 minutes a year sending my accountant a list of checking accounts to report as part of my taxes.

Brexit hasn't really affected me in any way personally, but it might be a bigger factor for others.

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#179

Post by habosa »

Clearly America is the place to be if you want to make billions in tech. The bigger question is why every single company needs to target billions of dollars. You can still build a very successful company in London and get quite wealthy, you just might not get your own private space program.

Meanwhile in London your workers will have free healthcare, their kids will have free higher education, etc.

He's totally right about Brexit though. The talent pool in London is never going to be the same.

Re: I’m leaving London for NYC and taking my tech startup

#180

Post by heurisko »

hogFeast wrote: post #121
Quarrelsome wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

like the author we're light on details beyond "the culture", "bad at sales". What does this _mean_ exactly?

It is everything. Customers too risk-averse, class boundaries still endemic (it is amazing the US tech companies went into this, Google/Facebook/etc. seem to have hired the Notting Hill set as soon as they came to London), companies too conservative about investing margin in sales, very relationship-driven sales culture (as opposed to product-driven) that is closed to "outsiders", reluctance to cold-call, etc. It is…

> class boundaries still endemic (it is amazing the US tech companies went into this, Google/Facebook/etc. seem to have hired the Notting Hill set as soon as they came to London)

In the UK, the working class used to be propelled upwards by grammar schools, [1] which selected children based on academic ability. Of course, there are problems around not wanting children who didn't get into grammar schools to be written-off, but I can't ignore their effectiveness in this regard.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammar_school

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