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New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

wired.com

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Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#51

Post by unreal37 »

PeterisP wrote: post #27

I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting - there's assertion that the ice cream machine manufacturer is copying features of the competitor's device, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and, in the absence of patent protection (the word "patent" is not mentioned in the article) absolutely permissible; and there's some assertion of "stealing trade secrets" without asserting any actual compromise o…

It's an interesting case to be sure.

McDonald's Franchisees are independent business owners. McDonald's is refusing to fix a problem, and has pushed a potential fix for the problem "out of business".

Not sure what the chances of this succeeding, but now we have Taylor and McDonald's hands dirty in trying to "buy this device and copy it's features and user interface". And lying about it when they said they had "no interest in the device". It's not pretty.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#52

Post by unreal37 »

pigbearpig wrote: post #25

First off, Taylor probably is happy with having machines that need service and who knows why McDonald's wants broken machines. I see nothing wrong with Taylor wanting to improve their own remote monitoring UX. That's just how competition works. Kytch make a good app, and what is Taylor supposed to do, not improve theirs? That part of Kytch's argument is bull. Kytch can MITM and reverse engineer Taylor's machines, but…

One company is "out of business", so the chances of that either company will follow your advice are none.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#53

Post by 14 »

jacquesm wrote: post #43
14 wrote: post #19

The wired article was extremely short not sure if I’m just not getting the full article? It seems from my perspective that Taylor and McDonald’s conspired to take money from the franchise owners. What a shame. Because all it does is incentives owners to cut corners like say serve cold fries so they don’t lose money. McDonald’s used to be great but somewhere lost the way. They used to be the affordable place anyone co…

> McDonald’s used to be great When was this?

I’m from the 80’s. First they used to actually use beef tallow up until the 90s when they switched to vegetable oil. Major decline in taste and texture. Fries used to stay crispy longer and the flavour was much more rich. Also you used to be able to get a cheese burger for like $0.60. It used to be affordable but at some point the prices skyrocketed and they got their new menu items which mostly sucked. They used to have pizza and I’ve seen a lot of people wish for that back. It seems to me like they wanted to portray themselves as a high end burger joint and start charging as much like you would see at a restaurant. What made them famous was cheap food. They should have kept that as a focus imo.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#54

Post by jacquesm »

14 wrote: post #53
jacquesm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> McDonald’s used to be great When was this?

I’m from the 80’s. First they used to actually use beef tallow up until the 90s when they switched to vegetable oil. Major decline in taste and texture. Fries used to stay crispy longer and the flavour was much more rich. Also you used to be able to get a cheese burger for like $0.60. It used to be affordable but at some point the prices skyrocketed and they got their new menu items which mostly sucked. They used to…

I've never seen them provide value for money here in Europe compared to what was already available. What boosted them - and killed a lot of the local competition - was that tourists seemed to prefer them. We had plenty of fast food here that was quite ok before then.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#55

Post by shagie »

pstuart wrote: post #34
etempleton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I sometimes wonder what a better McDonalds would look like.” I think a better McDonalds looks a lot like In and Out. If the Founder is accurate, McDonalds was a lot like In and Out at one time and operated like it. Chick-fil-a operates similarly. One thing that is always fascinating to me when I go to either of those two fast food restaurants is the army of workers they have on staff at any time. Usually each doing…

Except the fries. In and Out fries are not very good (ironic since they make a point of making them fresh, which would make one think they should be better). Otherwise, better quality, prices, and service (and staff pay and treatment).

Have you tried ordering them well done? Its on the "secret menu" - http://hackthemenu.com/in-n-out/secret-menu/well-done-fries/

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#56

Post by PeterisP »

unreal37 wrote: post #51
PeterisP wrote: post #27

I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting - there's assertion that the ice cream machine manufacturer is copying features of the competitor's device, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and, in the absence of patent protection (the word "patent" is not mentioned in the article) absolutely permissible; and there's some assertion of "stealing trade secrets" without asserting any actual compromise o…

It's an interesting case to be sure. McDonald's Franchisees are independent business owners. McDonald's is refusing to fix a problem, and has pushed a potential fix for the problem "out of business". Not sure what the chances of this succeeding, but now we have Taylor and McDonald's hands dirty in trying to "buy this device and copy it's features and user interface". And lying about it when they said they had "no int…

Lying is shitty (but usually legal), however "buy this device and copy it's features and user interface" is not "dirty hands" but a completely legitimate course of action. They would have hands dirty if they had bribed some Kytch engineers for schematics or hired someone to steal a prototype, but there's nothing wrong about buying a product and reverse engineering it. In fact, I would consider placing restrictions on that - e.g. software EULAs that prohibit reverse engineering - as immoral.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#58

Post by shum1 »

Relevant link for those who want more context on the constantly broken McDonald icecream machine situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDEtSlqJC4

I don't think the WIRED article isn't really doing justice to what Kytch is trying to show. The important argument is whether or not McDonald and Taylor conspired to prevent Kytch from selling / franchisees from purchasing this equipment, essentially a 'right to repair' argument.

If Kytch wins, there could be ramifications for the tractor debate in the agricultural world as well.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#59

Post by DonHopkins »

jacquesm wrote: post #54
14 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m from the 80’s. First they used to actually use beef tallow up until the 90s when they switched to vegetable oil. Major decline in taste and texture. Fries used to stay crispy longer and the flavour was much more rich. Also you used to be able to get a cheese burger for like $0.60. It used to be affordable but at some point the prices skyrocketed and they got their new menu items which mostly sucked. They used to…

I've never seen them provide value for money here in Europe compared to what was already available. What boosted them - and killed a lot of the local competition - was that tourists seemed to prefer them. We had plenty of fast food here that was quite ok before then.

FEBO!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEBO

Eating from the wall is like late night window shopping in Amsterdam's culinary red light district.

https://uncloggedblog.com/2013/12/10/five-ways-to-see-amster...

>Window-shopping for fast food at FEBO.

>If you must, eat from the wall at FEBO, an inexplicably popular Dutch tradition that satisfies appetites 24/7 with automated fast food displayed in tiny windows. No telling how long those mayo-slathered frikandel and burgers have been sitting there under heat lamps, but if you’re starving in the wee hours, they may be your only snack option.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#60

Post by fedreserved »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41
srj wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One part of this I don't understand is why would McDonald's benefit from their franchises constantly needing their ice cream machines serviced.

“Kytch points to documents from the time of Taylor's acquisition by Middleby in 2018 that show the company receives close to 25 of its revenue—from all its customers, not just McDonald's—via repair contracts with Taylor distributors, which Kytch argues provides an incentive to maintain the machines' fragility.“ The missing piece is the kickback to McDonald’s, or a similar financial incentive from Taylor to maintain t…

https://youtu.be/SrDEtSlqJC4

This video did a good indepth investigation. From memory Taylors hq is within 5 miles of McDonald's HQ. To close for comfort when you see the type of shenanigans they go through to pad Taylors revenue

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