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Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

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Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#111
post #24

A few times a year, I download the latest version of star-office / open-office / libre-office and try it on a MSWord document from work. My most recent attempt was 2 weeks ago. I have yet to see a correctly-formatted result. In the beginning, simple things like bullets were wrong. These seem OK now, but equations are completely messed up, as are figure numbers, etc. This stream of office suites is probably fine for c…

That (continues) to say much more about the inner brokenness of the Word "file format" than attempts to reverse-engineer it. That's a quoted term as the format has little to do with a typical mark-up-version-saved-to-disk, as was standard on such modern formats as ... WordStar and WordPerfect in the late 1980s.

Granted, it doesn't help you much when you've got to interact with someone using some random version of a borken instance of MS Word.

I'm aware that MSFT have moved to an XML-based markup, and that support may have improved. I find the word-processing model (with its assumptions of a static, un-shared paper-based document) fundamentally broken. Most of my communications are in text files, Wiki documents, or on the odd occasion, Google docs or similar which allow simultaneous shared online edits.

It's also curious that nearly 30 years since its release, there's no simple reader for MS Word. Yes, Microsoft released one such. If you hit space (or any other character), say, to scroll through the document as you would a 'less' pager or PDF viewer .... a dialog appeared telling you that this was not an editor. Which you had to dismiss. Every. Fucking. Time.

And somewhere deep within Redmond, someone is still wondering why MS Word DOC format didn't become a universal document interface interchange format.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#112

How timely. I just spent 2 hours re-installing grub2 after Windows wiped it out (I knew it was going to happen but I hoped it wouldn't be any trouble to restore it). As I use LVM, I had to copy the /dev/dm-* devices to /dev/mapper/ - in order to install grub (this is what took 1h50mins to figure out). Then I had to boot in to Ubuntu and update the grub config again to pick up Windows. That said, Ubuntu has improved a…

That's not Ubuntus fault. I'm thinking it wouldn't be easier to fix your boot loader in Windows.

Actually, it's pretty simple. Boot a DOS disk. Run 'fdisk /mbr'.

Mind: my preference would be booting FreeDOS, not some borken Microsoft crap. But all the same.

My experience is that fixing Linux GRUB issues is also pretty straightforward. Helps to understand chroots and stuff, but still: boot a bootable distro (Ubuntu or Knoppix on a USB stick rawks), chroot into your installed root FS, mount /boot if necessary, and run 'grub-install' or 'update-grub'.

Mostly just works.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#113
post #20

Nope. Ubuntu won't be ready until upgrading Firefox (or any individual package) doesn't force insanity like opposite window controls or Unity without asking. Regular people aren't interested in seeing drastic and seemingly nonsensical changes like that for no reason, and almost certainly aren't interested in being part of some grand OS experiment. They want something that is consistent and works. While package manage…

First: Linux does expect (and reward) a certain level of technical literacy. If you don't want to acquire or exercise this, well, you have alternatives and you've mentioned several. Those do come with trade-offs of their own.

If you don't like system upgrades for single-package updates, learn to use your distro's 'backports' feature. What? Your distro doesn't have backports? Shame.

Or switch to Gentoo and install/upgrade just the packages you want to use. Yes, you'll have to learn how to compile shit.

The UI in Linux is highly modular. You can switch to a different (or no) desktop environment pretty easily. There's a switcher in your log-in manager. Try it.

There's a reason for package dependencies, and there's a huge payoff (single-point-of-control whole-system upgrades with very low failure risk). It's not perfect, but on systems which have developed a mature packaging system over time (Debian, derivatives), it works exceptionally well, and provides access to over 30,000 packages.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only big one is Debian/Mint, but from what I hear that's still too unstable for even power users. You're forgetting about Arch, which is absolutely amazing. Simple, yet powerful.

The thing I hate about Arch: the AUR. It's horrible. There is no official tool to handle it, the package stability or coverage is spotty at best, and the unofficial tools (yaourt, etc.) suck. But you have to use AUR, because that's where the breadth of the packages are. Arch's team is relatively small (compared to Debian's anyway) and they can't maintain that many packages. I agree with their choice of letting the co…

Can you give some examples of must-have software that are only in AUR? Having use Arch for years on multiple machines, I've rarely had to use AUR. And when I do, I've found it to be a marvelously simple mechanism - a bit like homebrew on a Mac, where you can easily edit the recipe if needed. It sure as hell beats installing unsupported software on Ubuntu.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#115

How timely. I just spent 2 hours re-installing grub2 after Windows wiped it out (I knew it was going to happen but I hoped it wouldn't be any trouble to restore it). As I use LVM, I had to copy the /dev/dm-* devices to /dev/mapper/ - in order to install grub (this is what took 1h50mins to figure out). Then I had to boot in to Ubuntu and update the grub config again to pick up Windows. That said, Ubuntu has improved a…

That's not Ubuntus fault. I'm thinking it wouldn't be easier to fix your boot loader in Windows.

I know, I just happen to be using Ubuntu. However, 99% of users will blame Ubuntu. (I think the issue is already fixed in newer versions of lvm2 (or grub2, I can't remember which they patched.))

Am I missing something with Windows? Can it detect non-Windows partitions? How can I fix it?

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#116
post #20

Nope. Ubuntu won't be ready until upgrading Firefox (or any individual package) doesn't force insanity like opposite window controls or Unity without asking. Regular people aren't interested in seeing drastic and seemingly nonsensical changes like that for no reason, and almost certainly aren't interested in being part of some grand OS experiment. They want something that is consistent and works. While package manage…

This is one of the major reasons I don't suggest Linux to anyone. There was a time I'd get people to switch from Windows to Linux; now I tell them to either upgrade to Windows 7 (if they're not on Windows 7 already) or get a Mac. I'm also concerned about three secondary issues. One, there is a lack of strong leadership in the Linux community. Shuttleworth is the only person who can shake things up, and whenever he do…

I would advise the ordinary non-technical user to go Mac. Fewer headaches all around, largely through restricted choice. The platform drives me bananas. Windows makes me postal though.

Linux / Free Software has strong leadership, but that leadership generally has limited scope. The GNOME team have certainly taken bull-headedness to new heights within their own limited realm of control. To somewhat muted applause as I recall.

OpenBSD (granted, not Linux) isn't particularly renowned for having a shrinking violet at its head. Nor Linux itself, nor the FSF. Other major projects have a mix of leadership styles, itself part of the (r)evolutionary culture of trying different technical, social, organizational, and leadership structures.

That diversity (including various ill-advised developmental branches) is part of Linux / Free Software's strength: a great many parallel paths are being tried. Some will succeed, some will fail. In general, the better alternatives generally at least get a good, if not fully fair, hearing.

Politics is inevitable when you're dealing with more than one individual or organization. Grow up and get over it. You'll note that these same political discusses exist in the proprietary world, you're just not (usually) party to them.

The proper counterproposal to a bikeshed argument is to demand construction of a nuclear power plant.

Those "creative differences" are called "forks" and again, are a key strength to Free Software (see previous comments).

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#117
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu and Fedora, though the most common desktop distros, also are notoriously NOT very stable. Fedora is RedHat beta-test playground, and Ubuntu is built from a Debian-unstable snapshot. OTOH many people complains that Debian, RedHat or CentOS are too long to implement the latest features, but this is the price to pay for extreme reliability. Know your needs, choose accordingly.

I just wish there was a middle ground though where you dont have to choose between extreme reliability + years of waiting and fast turnaround + notorious instability

For desktops: Debian testing + pinning as needed to backports, sid, and experimental.

For servers: Debian stable + backports.

That last in particular is vastly preferable on servers to the usual "Oh, we've got to run Red Hat because it's industry standard, but we're going to have to rip out the guts and install a metric shit-ton of third-part / roll-your own / nonstandard packages, and then hope that the poor third-generation admin to inherit this cesspit can make heads or tails of it.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#118
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu and Fedora, though the most common desktop distros, also are notoriously NOT very stable. Fedora is RedHat beta-test playground, and Ubuntu is built from a Debian-unstable snapshot. OTOH many people complains that Debian, RedHat or CentOS are too long to implement the latest features, but this is the price to pay for extreme reliability. Know your needs, choose accordingly.

I just wish there was a middle ground though where you dont have to choose between extreme reliability + years of waiting and fast turnaround + notorious instability

Since my favorite Debian combo was already mentioned, I should mention my usual plan-B: CentOS with CentOS Plus enabled on the server. What flavor of Unix you run on the desktop is irrelevant, although I frequently find myself in dependency hell when I am working on a Mac. Installing the qtconsole version of iPython is next to impossible.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#119
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing a dist-upgrade, which is exactly like going from XP to Win7. Stay on LTS if it bothers you that much.

That's precisely my point. In the Linux world, your distro version is inextricably linked to the versions of every major and minor software package in a way that just doesn't happen in Windows. If I stuck with Lucid, I'd still be using Firefox 3.6. (Yes you could add a PPA, but opening the terminal is beyond the technical skill of the average user.) Linux won't succeed on the desktop until the phrases "Upgrade Firefo…

> your distro version is inextricably linked to the versions of every major and minor software package in a way that just doesn't happen in Windows.

What's the big deal with versions? It's not like it's too much trouble updating Ubuntu from one version to the next (you know you can turn off Unity). Most of the time, you can even continue working while it upgrades. This is not like Windows where you have to reboot the machine with the install media and wait a couple hours to get the new version.

And while the Firefox teams does an amazing job making FF 6 for XP, the same can't be said about the Internet Explorer team. If you want the latest IE, you need to upgrade Windows.

Re: Why Ubuntu Linux is now ready for primetime

#120
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could spend a whole weekend getting a driver to work properly, and fiddling with kernel options. I haven't done that stuff since around 2005. I just install a standard distro, and leave it to do what it does. It Just Works out of the box. It even detects my Raid5 and sets that up for me. Debian is my choice because of the rolling updates in testing -- I don't even want to think about version numbers. I use Linux…

If you're lucky enough to own a machine that works out of the box, with all of its components, while running Linux: all the power to you. I've owned many computers over the years, of all shapes, sizes, brands, and/or custom parts, and I've never had a single one "just work."

> If you're lucky enough to own a machine that works out of the box

Actually, it's the other way around. If you own a machine that doesn't work out of the box, you are terribly unlucky.

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