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Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

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Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#331

Post by notyourday »

JohnFen wrote: post #292
notyourday wrote: post #188

Apple simply needs to exercise its right to deplatform everyone who works for NSO. Oh and deplatform all government wonks of government of Israel as it is allowing NSO Group to operate. Life in 2021 is very difficult without a smartphone. In fact it is so difficult that if working for NSO comes with "no smartphone forever" sticker NSO won't be able to find people to work for it.

> Life in 2021 is very difficult without a smartphone. It's actually not, at least in the US. Tons of people do it.

US population for 2020 is 329.5 million. 18 percent of US population fell between 0-14 years old in 2019. US has over 290 million smatphones in 2020.

We can confidently presume anyone who works for a tech company such as NSO does not live like a Luddite.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#332

Post by montblanc »

sneak wrote: post #325
fortran77 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"target them"? What are you proposing?

Refuse to hire them, like I do for Facebook, Microsoft, and Raytheon/Booz/etc staff. Blog about their names and the work they do and their employer, so anyone searching for them on Google knows that they are military-industrial complex scumbags.

Wait what? You don't hire people from Microsoft? Let's say I get Facebook (I don't really) but what's wrong with Microsoft?

How about people who eat meat? Or vote for the other party - the one you don't like? Are you trying to hire people who are morally compatible with you on every single question? That's gonna be rough hiring.

Even the weapons industry is a tough one. The knee jerk reaction says it's immoral to work for them. But after contemplating - if the U.S (or Europe, or anyone else) doesn't have an advanced military it will be taken over by its enemies (Chinese, Russians etc). Yes, the fact that "they" build their own militaries for the exact same reason is tragic. But if the U.S just dismantled it's arms industries what do you think would happen in a few decades?

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#333

Post by ldehaan »

fragmede wrote: post #60
strict9 wrote: post #7

It is great to see this happen. It's also fascinating that the crux of the Apple's case against NSO hinges on NSO engineers that accepted iCloud's terms and conditions. From related NYT article: > The sample of Pegasus gave Apple a forensic understanding of how Pegasus worked. The company found that NSO’s engineers had created more than 100 fake Apple IDs to carry out their attacks. In the process of creating those a…

Is it great? The lawsuit is Apple trying to enforce the iCloud EULA to stop reverse engineering. While NSO Group created hacking tools, and then did some questionable things with them, do we really want those inane licenses no one reads, and everyone scrolls down to hit [agree]; do we really want them to legally binding? Put another way, if it was someone HN liked , would we still say this is actually good? Because c…

This is a rare insightful comment from the usual mainstream thought you find on hn. Exactly, what if it's someone you like? So few people consider this when they give up their rights for the "common good" eula's are just one these things we just allow to happen to us because we assume good intentions.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#334

Post by montblanc »

Eelongate wrote: post #321
tclancy wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose?

They support oppressive regimes with their products and services, thereby suppressing public revolts and preempting civil wars that doubtlessly would claim the lives of many. Very noble of them. /S

The U.S supports the same regimes. The U.S made huge weapons deals with UAE, Saudi Arabia and more. Selling actual fighting jets that destroy thousands of people, not some cyber app.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#335

Post by montblanc »

napmo wrote: post #295

Let's see the big picture: It's not only about a spyware, but it's about a vast range of malicious tools used for targeting human right activists around the world, at first through spywares and other malicious software, but if they needed, physically harming them. It is actually part of the Israeli state-sponsored terrorism around the world. Other dictatorships like Saudi Arabia also use their tools. Brutally killing…

> It is actually part of the Israeli state-sponsored terrorism around the world

Care to explain what you mean? When the U.S sells arms by the billions to despot regimes is it also a state-sponsored terrorism around the world? Or just when Israel sells a cyber app you call it that?

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#336

Post by salawat »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #214
Barrin92 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do we really want those inane licenses no one reads, and everyone scrolls down to hit [agree]; do we really want them to legally binding? for commercial interactions in particular between two businesses? Yes, absolutely. How else are two entities supposed to come to legally binding terms without a contract? I'm all for a little bit of lenience when an end user didn't read the terms but you think NSO group doesn't h…

> How else are two entities supposed to come to legally binding terms without a contract? The question is what's the threshold for the existence of a contract. You both go into a conference room with lawyers and negotiate over the terms and sign it in ink, that's some pretty good yes vibes. Somebody clicks a button on an un-negotiated text form in a piece of software, maybe it should take more than that. > I'm all fo…

>Somebody clicks a button on an un-negotiated text form in a piece of software, maybe it should take more than that.

My litmus test is I don't consider a contract valid unless I've actually had a chance to do a counteroffer.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#337

Post by montblanc »

notyourday wrote: post #188

Apple simply needs to exercise its right to deplatform everyone who works for NSO. Oh and deplatform all government wonks of government of Israel as it is allowing NSO Group to operate. Life in 2021 is very difficult without a smartphone. In fact it is so difficult that if working for NSO comes with "no smartphone forever" sticker NSO won't be able to find people to work for it.

It would be quite a blow if the 5% of Israeli government who use IPhones (IPhones aren't really popular outside the U.S) suddenly have to switch to Android. As an extreme measure I suggest blocking their itunes accounts. And no more Macbooks! Settle for some cheaper superior hardware elsewhere!

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#338

Post by jacquesm »

rendaw wrote: post #237
TillE wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nerds always want to interpret the law in some strict pedantic fashion, but in practice this is almost never how it works. Law is not applied stupidly or mechanically, you can't fashion yourself some ad hoc workaround unless you're extremely certain about what you're doing, preferably with a mountain of precedent behind you.

"NSO can be sued under California law because they accepted the EULA" seems like a mechanical, strict, pedantic application of law though.

Yes, American companies love to stack the deck against their users when it comes to selecting venue, but at the same time balk when the EU requires that they have an EU anchor to allow legal enforcement.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#339

Post by jacquesm »

shsbdncudx wrote: post #306
TillE wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nerds always want to interpret the law in some strict pedantic fashion, but in practice this is almost never how it works. Law is not applied stupidly or mechanically, you can't fashion yourself some ad hoc workaround unless you're extremely certain about what you're doing, preferably with a mountain of precedent behind you.

Speaking as someone who’s been on the unfortunate wrong end of it, the law is applied stupidly and mechanically. All the time. That’s the default. The judge will go to great pains to super pedantically apply the rule of the law, regardless of common sense and believe it or not in most cases also regardless of common sense. As it should be. It doesn’t always work well for all circumstances, but we don’t have a better…

This isn't the case everywhere. In some countries it is the intent of the law that matters, in others it is the letter of the law, in some a mix of both.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#340

Post by udev »

timeon wrote: post #264
udev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if Facebook never filed? Would Apple never be able to act on this? If they would have acted, why didn't they do it before Facebook?

Yeah what if? What if I have lived in wonderland?

Indeed, a wonderland where it is OK for a 2 trillion dollar company to take 5 years to fix vulnerabilities that put in danger many of its users worldwide.
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