History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill • Hacker News Board

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#41

Post by abhiyerra » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 8:14 PM UTC

dimmuborgir wrote: post #21

GeneTraylor wrote: post #7

(note: I don't mean to be rude, but this comment has barely been up for 1 minute and I'm already being down-voted. Surely no one can read something this long this fast and down-vote even faster. I've tried to write a reasoned critique of the phenomena before me. It's not a political comment, but a logical one.) Any constitution is a fine balance of power, a body like this which concentrates power outside of the const…

Have you read Lokpal bill? First, the Lokpal deals only with the Judiciary part of the constitution while both Legislature and Executive parts will be untouched. So it's not an alternative constitution . Even within Judiciary it deals only with officials 'who are facing corruption charges' . In fact Lokpal will be weaker than an income tax officer. A corrupt Lokpal can be removed within two months by the parliament!…

People also forge the Quit India movement which was Gandhi's proposal of getting the British out by any means possible: including violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quit_India_Movement

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#42

Post by digamber_kamat » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 8:32 PM UTC

chakde wrote: post #39

digamber_kamat wrote: post #36

I think this forum perhaps would understand best what is the real cause of corruption in India. In a place like Singapore an entrepreneur need to take around 7 permission to start construction, in India you need to take 30+. Is the way to reduce corruption is to bring a new inspector who will looks after all those 30+ permission processes or to reduce these permission to 5 ? Indian government employes 3 million emplo…

Have you seen this or not ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHcKlIsvAQ It is not adding another layer, it is refactoring the system based on good evidence that this has worked before. People talking about real cause and root cause are welcome to start a movement to solve that. When you are able to convince a few friends and gather a few followers, please let us know.

What is there in those videos besides some Anna-glorification ? And to talk about supporters, yes, there are a large number of people that think like me, it is just that they are not firing from shoulders of an good intentioned old man.

You can see the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/Indians4Republic

Or Pragati: http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#43

Post by digamber_kamat » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 8:35 PM UTC

prpon wrote: post #40

For those of us who are not aware of lokpal or what the bill contains to reduce corruption in India, can someone provide a brief summary?

Here is a critic of Lokpal Bill as proposed by Anna Hazare http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/2011/08/jan-lok-pal-is-bo...

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#44

Post by 0xdeadc0de » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 9:04 PM UTC

digamber_kamat wrote: post #42

chakde wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen this or not ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHcKlIsvAQ It is not adding another layer, it is refactoring the system based on good evidence that this has worked before. People talking about real cause and root cause are welcome to start a movement to solve that. When you are able to convince a few friends and gather a few followers, please let us know.

What is there in those videos besides some Anna-glorification ? And to talk about supporters, yes, there are a large number of people that think like me, it is just that they are not firing from shoulders of an good intentioned old man. You can see the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/Indians4Republic Or Pragati: http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/

Hey, thanks for the links I was like a minority arguing against my friends on FB all these days

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#45

Post by naughtysriram » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 9:25 PM UTC

People wake up..!! There are two kinds of bribing/corruption. In most countries you will see officers take bribe for not doing something that comes in their authority or that is out of their authority. But only in Great India we can see that officers take bribe just for doing their job which they get paid for. Jan Lok Pal bill is the leash that the people of Great India have got to keep all the officers tied.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#46

Post by sushantsharma » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 9:48 PM UTC

GeneTraylor wrote: post #7

(note: I don't mean to be rude, but this comment has barely been up for 1 minute and I'm already being down-voted. Surely no one can read something this long this fast and down-vote even faster. I've tried to write a reasoned critique of the phenomena before me. It's not a political comment, but a logical one.) Any constitution is a fine balance of power, a body like this which concentrates power outside of the const…

I am not sure if you understand the complete situation. Presently, the body that looks into the corruption cases against politicians and other Govt. workers is directly under the control of Govt. (you see the conflict of interest). The idea of lokpal is more than 40 years old, which says that the person/body investigating these corruption cases should be an independent body and (at least theoretically) should not be under the control of those being investigated. I don't see any problem with having a Lokpal. Of course, the lokpal can be corrupt. But atleast a non-corrupt Lokpal can investigate freely. Whereas, right now investigating Polititians and Govt. works is nearly impossible.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#47

Post by delinka » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 10:02 PM UTC

I don't get how this is OK on HN but the articles on the "right to video police" are not. Isn't this article also politics?

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#48

Post by chakde » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 10:15 PM UTC

digamber_kamat wrote: post #42

chakde wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen this or not ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHcKlIsvAQ It is not adding another layer, it is refactoring the system based on good evidence that this has worked before. People talking about real cause and root cause are welcome to start a movement to solve that. When you are able to convince a few friends and gather a few followers, please let us know.

What is there in those videos besides some Anna-glorification ? And to talk about supporters, yes, there are a large number of people that think like me, it is just that they are not firing from shoulders of an good intentioned old man. You can see the Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/Indians4Republic Or Pragati: http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/

What he is actually saying is that people are supporting Anna without necessarily understanding the reasons why - then he proceeds to lay down the reasons how we got to this situation after 43 years of the bill and the recent increase in public pilfering.

Also given is the example of the cleanup of Hong Kong corruption using an independant body with powers.

Interesting links. But the constitution does not say government should be small. And flip side of great business freedom is potential for greater exploitation. So you'd likely face headwinds as strong as Anna is facing if you were in his position.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#49

Post by bitops » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 10:40 PM UTC

I'm going to admit my ignorance here...I understood very little of what this article said and what it's relevance is. I don't follow Indian politics, so I do not know very much about how the government works, what the Lokpal bill is, or what it's meant to do. Or who "Anna" is.

Maybe somebody would be kind enough to post a tl;dr? I understand that there are problems with corruption in India but don't know any of the background details.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#50

Post by Retric » Sat, Aug 27, 2011, 11:18 PM UTC

anonri wrote: post #18

rushabh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. It seems like a media driven phenomenon. Incompetence is a bigger problem than corruption in India. The systemic problems that face the society need ambition, will and technology. This solution is too simplistic for me to be taken seriously.

> Incompetence is a bigger problem than corruption in India. The systemic problems that face the society need ambition, will and technology. This is the elephant in the room when it comes to India. There is just a huge amount of apathy amongst the people. A simple example is how much produce rots to waste as a result of poor transportation/refrigeration. There are so many processes crying out to be optimized. As a US…

Corruption directly results in inefficient systems.

Consider a road from A to B. Ideally you would want a strait line, but if someone owns land that would benefit from being near a road then you just bend the path a little and suddenly his land is worth more. As long as the person drawing that line has more to gain from bribes than an efficient road you are going to build a lot of odd looking roads. Taken to the extreme and you get roads that are less useful and more costly to build and maintain because they are longer.