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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#391

Post by bradleyjg »

s5300 wrote: post #339
bko wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, s…

When commenting on the state of the country, I would look towards the states that have historically ranked poorly in education and see why they’re never improving. California is definitely not one of those states & seems to have no issue in keeping a higher than average educated populace.

From the article:

On national standardized tests, California ranks in the bottom quartile among all states and U.S. territories for 8th grade math scores.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#393

Post by [deleted] »

bko wrote: post #272
Eelongate wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, s…

[deleted]

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#394

Post by JPKab »

s5300 wrote: post #335
Eelongate wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

> then the situation in California must be deteriorating severely. Hmm… Worlds 5th largest GDP, internationally desirable cities, some of the highest housing prices that’s always being bought over asking price, often in cash - internationally acclaimed state wide university system, one of the cultural & academic centers of the nation… I know it’s like, my opinion, but I think the situation in California is fine. I’d…

How many of the employees in these companies that make the GDP so high were born, raised, and educated in California?

You know damned well that it's not many. California is a success because of immigrants from other countries and states. Think about the founders of the current top valuation tech companies in California. How many were raised in California? Zuck? Nope. Maryland. Sergey Brin? Nope, educated in Maryland as well. Larry Page? Nope, raised and educated in Michigan. Steve Jobs was educated in California, 60 years ago, so you've got that. Not relevant to this conversation. What about his successor Tim Cook? Oops, he was raised and educated in Alabama. Reed Hastings? Nope, raised and educated in Boston.

So while the above proves your final point, it basically highlights the fact that California does well for structural and historical reasons, like the fact that many VCs required any company they invested in to relocate to the Valley, and other things like network effects.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#395

Post by civilized »

spacecaps wrote: post #227
threatofrain wrote: post #121

The program is called Equitable Math and it frames current mathematics pedagogy as a mechanism by which White Supremacy is sustained.¹ Note that in a very long multi-part document on White Supremacy, there is absolutely zero mention of Asians, despite that they are somewhere between 15.5% to 17% of the state population.² Program goals includes the de-emphasis of Algebra for middle school and Calculus for high school.…

For anyone interested, I think it's probably worth actually digging into Equitable Math's "Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction" [0]. I just skimmed some of it based on your link, and the majority of it just reads like "stop teaching math poorly." I was looking for some real burn-down-the-establishment stuff, but it's honestly pretty prosaic. For example: > "There is a greater focus on getting the "right" an…

> Yes, the framing is unnecessarily antagonistic, but if we took the white supremacy dressings off of it I doubt the ideas inside would be divisive at all.

The claims about white supremacy are not merely dressing. The ideological claims are the only interesting part of the document. All the pedagogical stuff you cite approvingly is just the same empty fluff that has dominated US education since the 1960s.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#396

Post by worried4future »

bko wrote: post #272
Eelongate wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, s…

> as a means of promoting equity

Denying high-preforming, or average preforming students access to appropriate education in the service of "equity" reminds me of this:

https://unwokenarrative.com/content/images/2021/06/image-3.p...

The people doing this are destroying the future of these children and our nation as a whole. It should be criminal but I fear an idiocracy-like future where no one is smart enough to realize how stupid we have become.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#397

Post by cactus2093 »

threatofrain wrote: post #121

The program is called Equitable Math and it frames current mathematics pedagogy as a mechanism by which White Supremacy is sustained.¹ Note that in a very long multi-part document on White Supremacy, there is absolutely zero mention of Asians, despite that they are somewhere between 15.5% to 17% of the state population.² Program goals includes the de-emphasis of Algebra for middle school and Calculus for high school.…

Is moving away from Calculus in high school such a bad idea?

I took AP Calculus in high school and studied physics in undergrad so I've done a lot of calculus, but it honestly seems like a pretty niche subject when I think about it. It's hard to think of any times that it's applicable in my life any more. Some of the concepts are very beautiful, but a lot of things like the rote solving of integrals to get to a closed form solution can get pretty tedious and can be done by computers these days anyway.

At the same time, I didn't take any statistics or computer science in high school and really only had my first introduction to programming in college. Both of these seem like topics that should be prioritized above calculus for most high school students.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#398

Post by candybar »

Eelongate wrote: post #165
bko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. Since the organizations feel ashamed that they're failing certain demographics as evidenced by being under-represented in the advanced classes, they're just scrapping the advanced classes for everyone. Truly disgraceful

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

Did you take standard high-school Algebra 1 in 7th grade? Algebraic concepts are often taught as early as 3rd grade, but much of it is considered pre-Algebra.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#399

Post by BarkMore »

ipaddr wrote: post #105
TimTheTinker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "single standard" to me is like outlawing adjustable seats in cars. In the UK, they start separating students into separate tracks around 8th grade. Some will excel in math and science, so give them the opportunity to really go for it and take hard classes. Others will excel in other areas. But if everyone is lumped together in the same bucket and forced into the same mold, the average student's highest level of…

Get labelled incorrectly in grade 8 and get shutout of any advanced math/science classes which disqualifies you from a good university program.

Yes, this happens. My son could not take calculus in high school because he was mislabeled in 8th grade. The 8th-grade decision has had an impact on his college career.

The school system has as a track of classes leading up to calculus. A student can jump forward on the track by passing a test on the next class in the track.

Because there were other demands on my son's time, it was not practical for him to learn a year's worth of material outside of school time.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#400

Post by Animats »

Beginning algebra is more of a language learning exercise. There's not much content; it's more about notation and manipulation, which will be used later. Looked at that way, it's helpful to get that done reasonably early.

Calculus? I wonder how that's taught today. I had way too much stuff about summing infinite series, which you don't really do very often. I think calculus should be taught in conjunction with Newtonian physics, so you see how it predicts what happens in simple physical situations. This provides motivation.

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