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The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

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Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#121

Post by gremloni »

tbjohnston wrote: post #83

Gentle note - I participated in one of the Catherine Project's events - a two hour session on Genesis 1-5. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Everyone involved came prepared, asked good questions, and listened thoughtfully to what others had to say. I'd cheerfully participate again. I don't understand the skepticism either. If people want to engage a great text with a community, what's the harm?

I’m not seeing the skepticism being referred to but I would imagine this education is feminist and many people have a deep aversion to anything related to that.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#122

Post by gjvnq »

justahuman74 wrote: post #106
wfhpw wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10% of income is the standard

That's just enormous, seems like a strong disincentive to join

Depends on how it is calculated, if it is after tax that isn't so much.

Also, people who are supporting church will often use a lot of their services so it's not like giving money to a charity you will never directly see their work (like environmental groups).

Finally, the 10% rule comes from times where the state had a much lesser role in fighting poverty.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#123

Post by throwaway984393 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #88
dbt00 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in churches without official tithes, there's a collection plate passed. Operations must be funded, employees need to be fed, housed, clothed.

I guess growing up people would toss a few bucks in the collection plate. It wasn’t until I was an adult that I learned that my Dad would write a significant check to the church every month in addition to the few dollars we passed in the plate (we were a blue collar family, but my parents prioritized tithing, which helped to subsidize the school that was affiliated with the church). My understanding is that the plate…

Our family put the checks in the collection plate. They certainly do get donations from other places, and of course they don't pay taxes.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#124

Post by bee_rider »

tbjohnston wrote: post #83

Gentle note - I participated in one of the Catherine Project's events - a two hour session on Genesis 1-5. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Everyone involved came prepared, asked good questions, and listened thoughtfully to what others had to say. I'd cheerfully participate again. I don't understand the skepticism either. If people want to engage a great text with a community, what's the harm?

I don't think there's any harm, and I'm happy people are doing things they enjoy. I don't think this project is really comparable to a conventional school, though, so I don't know why the author takes shots at that system (I mean it is obviously a very flawed system, but I don't see what new to learn about it from this experiment).

I mean, no grades, no cost, no degree at the end, four people per 'class' -- is it closer to a conventional university, or a book club? Not to knock book clubs -- they are great (especially if people read the books for once), but they probably won't solve the education system either.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#125

Post by bee_rider »

gremloni wrote: post #121
tbjohnston wrote: post #83

Gentle note - I participated in one of the Catherine Project's events - a two hour session on Genesis 1-5. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Everyone involved came prepared, asked good questions, and listened thoughtfully to what others had to say. I'd cheerfully participate again. I don't understand the skepticism either. If people want to engage a great text with a community, what's the harm?

I’m not seeing the skepticism being referred to but I would imagine this education is feminist and many people have a deep aversion to anything related to that.

The article is not very long. You should at least skim it, if the alternative is jumping to a fairly negative conclusion.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#126

Post by Turing_Machine »

wfhpw wrote: post #101
Turing_Machine wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States, most churches are open to anyone who wants to come in, but often being a "member" of the church requires providing some form of formal support, such as tithing (members typically have at least some say in church policy, while random congregants do not). Congregants (who may not be official members) also generally add something to the collection plate when it comes around. Some countries still ha…

10% of income is the standard

Yeah, "tithe" is an old (Middle English?) word for "tenth".

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#127

Post by CrazyStat »

lkschubert8 wrote: post #107
WalterBright wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe you aren't everyone. I didn't say "all students". > a number of colleges and universities that don't use grades An example of a prestigious university that doesn't use grades would help your case.

There is one mentioned in the top comment, St. John's.

Reed College is another famous example, and Brown University allowed students to take all classes as pass/fail.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#128

Post by caddemon »

BoumTAC wrote: post #51
WalterBright wrote: post #26

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions. Who is paying the bills, then? > no grades There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

It's fun, to me it's totally the opposite. I only learn if I learn by myself. In school I had a bad memory of the learning process. Now ten years after finish school I think I have learn a hundred time more by myself than from my scholarship. There is a quote from Taleb which looks something like this "What I learned on my own I still remember."

I don't think it needs to be an XOR. Being forced to cram a very rigid curriculum was not conducive to learning for me. But with no external pressure at all I also find it hard to deeply learn about a topic (I bounce around a lot). For me the perfect classes were the ones that had flexible assignments, where the largest portion of the grade would be a final project that could be related to anything from throughout the course. That way the project is self driven, but also with some constraints and a clear deadline/judgement process.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#129

Post by Grae »

glial wrote: post #61

Interesting to see the deep skepticism in the comments. I attended St John's College - which is probably as close as a "real" school can get to the Catherine Project - and loved every minute. Grades were not given, and there were no professors or lectures. Seeing criticism about the business model and lack of tests, worry about educational fads, etc, is missing the point, in my opinion. Consider the possibility that…

Hey it's a Johnnie HN thread. There are dozens of us. Dozens!

I've been very loosely involved in Interintellect[0], which itches a similar scratch and looks spiritually very similar to the Catherine Project, with perhaps less of a focus on great books and a wider, more modern gamut.

For anyone considering Catherine Project, Interintellect, or St. John's College, I heartily recommend them. Diligently reading through deep written work, then discussing it with other people genuinely interested and invested in the work and the dialogue is a wonderful experience and one that's hugely shaped me.

[0]https://interintellect.com/

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#130

Post by ModernMech »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #113
iskander wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a joke about how universities have become administratively bloated and primarily function as a very expensive resort community for 18-22 year olds. To "compete" with each other, universities hire increase numbers of administrators whose job is to build out a more complete "college experience", including fancier gyms catering to modern exercise trends (aka climbing walls).

> universities have become administratively bloated and primarily function as a very expensive resort community for 18-22 year olds The worse thing is that people seem to really enjoy it. Every time I have a discussion on it with someone I inevitably hear arguments like “it was such a formative experience”, “university is not only for studying” and so on. It’s really crazy that a huge part of the population is convin…

On the flip side, if people are invariably reporting that it changed their life and shaped their perspective of the world, who are you to say that the money was wasted or the experience was overpriced? What exactly is the fair market rate for a formative experience?
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