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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#71

Post by bko »

darth_avocado wrote: post #14

Here's a revolutionary idea that pretty much all of the world adopts, if students are having trouble with a topic, get them to do more of it, instead of running away from it. I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it till the next time you have t…

This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. Since the organizations feel ashamed that they're failing certain demographics as evidenced by being under-represented in the advanced classes, they're just scrapping the advanced classes for everyone. Truly disgraceful

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#72

Post by lacker »

This is really making the public school system more unequal. Since this is just a "recommendation", the good public schools like Cupertino or Piedmont will ignore it, and keep teaching children algebra. The bad public schools that are having trouble hiring algebra teachers will use this as an excuse to stop teaching algebra.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#73

Post by anm89 »

I think we should really hold off on addition and reading until the post graduate level.

Once we take this to it's logical conclusion and reset the achievment bar to absolute zero, it will be impossible for there to be any inequality.

All classess straight through undergrad could be limited to a combination of nap time and snack time.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#74

Post by OccamsMirror »

zozbot234 wrote: post #57
pineconewarrior wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems entirely arbitrary (if not false?). I was taught the basics of algebra and even trig (at least, how pi and radians work) in the 4th and 5th grade

Yes, but I'm talking about what works well for the average student, not just math whizs who post on HN.

Maybe he's a math whiz because he was taught algebra at a young age, not the other way around.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#75

Post by elliekelly »

zozbot234 wrote: post #19
hanniabu wrote: post #3

Well that's stupid. If anything they should introduce it sooner. There's tons of research that show the sooner it's introduced the better they are able to digest that (as in it becomes more second nature and are later able to reason with it and build off that knowledge better).

It's hard to introduce Algebra much earlier than 8th grade - the students just don't have the mathematical maturity for it. What you can do though is challenge and expose them to slightly more complex applications of ordinary math (often stated via increasingly elaborate "word problems") that make the introduction of algebra a lot more natural when the students are finally up for it. You tend to see this approach in…

Anecdote: I’ve tutored elementary school kids (in Massachusetts) who are doing basic algebra with shapes and emoji instead of letters.

> 5 + $basketEmoji = 7

> What number is hiding in the basket?

They have no idea they’re doing algebra or what algebra even is but they’re doing it. And they understand the concept on a fundamental level.

I don’t remember anyone explaining a variable to me so explicitly. I just remember showing up one day and having to deal with random letters mixed into my math homework.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#77

Post by iimblack »

darth_avocado wrote: post #14

Here's a revolutionary idea that pretty much all of the world adopts, if students are having trouble with a topic, get them to do more of it, instead of running away from it. I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it till the next time you have t…

I’ve never heard of anywhere in the US doing just one year of math. My family currently in high school are required to do math all 4 years.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#78

Post by robotburrito »

friedman23 wrote: post #46
darth_avocado wrote: post #14

Here's a revolutionary idea that pretty much all of the world adopts, if students are having trouble with a topic, get them to do more of it, instead of running away from it. I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it till the next time you have t…

How many people that are good at math and love science / engineering decide to go into politics? I'm just talking without evidence but my guess is politics self selects for ambitious people that are completely inept when it comes to mathematics and critical thinking in general.

I think quite a bit. Congress regularly beats high end Wall Street investors when it comes to playing the equities market. This involves a great deal of understanding on mathematics topics involving everything from stats, probability and economics. They manage to do this part time while governing, so I'd have to say they are pretty adept.

I could be missing something though.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#80

Post by zozbot234 »

antognini wrote: post #49
zozbot234 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to introduce Algebra much earlier than 8th grade - the students just don't have the mathematical maturity for it. What you can do though is challenge and expose them to slightly more complex applications of ordinary math (often stated via increasingly elaborate "word problems") that make the introduction of algebra a lot more natural when the students are finally up for it. You tend to see this approach in…

> the students just don't have the mathematical maturity for it. Doesn't this get at the root of the problem though? Some students have the mathematical maturity for it. Others don't. The arguments seem to be between "we should present these concepts early for the benefit of the students who are ready for it" vs "we should delay these concepts until all students are ready." But different students have different level…

> The arguments seem to be between "we should present these concepts early for the benefit of the students who are ready for it" vs "we should delay these concepts until all students are ready."

Yes, I'm saying that the argument should be quite a bit broader than that. There's much that could be improved in how we expose students to more advanced math in early grades, and there's also much to learn from these well-established teaching approaches. If you do it badly, it's less likely to work.

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