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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#41
post #12

It’s the official shift from “we can lift everyone up” to “we need to hold everyone down”. It wasn’t that long ago the California was touting the success of Algebra for everyone in 8th grade.

in this timeline, we are all Harrison Bergeron.

Both policies were an elaborate dance to avoid the reality that different kids have different needs and abilities.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#42
The article does a great job of covering what people think about these changes, but a terrible job of covering what on earth the changes actually are. I felt like I was trying to solve a mystery where every paragraph buried in the opinions were small clues about what they're actually talking about.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#43
I guess one benefit of this approach is it costs nearly nothing. The better approach would be providing qualified tutors for free to struggling students, or to make current math classes smaller, or to add TAs to existing classes. But all of that costs money. You could also argue that a more holistic approach could help. Things like better meals at schools, better transportation options to and from schools or a wider range of class times. Again, all expensive options compared to simply limiting options and forcing students into fewer buckets.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#44
post #3

Well that's stupid. If anything they should introduce it sooner. There's tons of research that show the sooner it's introduced the better they are able to digest that (as in it becomes more second nature and are later able to reason with it and build off that knowledge better).

It's hard to introduce Algebra much earlier than 8th grade - the students just don't have the mathematical maturity for it. What you can do though is challenge and expose them to slightly more complex applications of ordinary math (often stated via increasingly elaborate "word problems") that make the introduction of algebra a lot more natural when the students are finally up for it. You tend to see this approach in…

I introduced my kid to Algebra in gr.2 during that first stretch of covid last year. He's not particularly adept at Math(doesn't struggle with it - it was gr.2 though so simple + and -), but it really didn't take much.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" . . . as a means of promoting equity" and "The intent of the state mathematics framework, its designers say, is to maintain rigor while also helping remedy California’s achievement gaps for Black, Latino and low-income students, which remain some of the largest in the nation. It's Harrison Bergeron Math.

Is there an achievement gap for other groups such as Asian students?

Asian students outperform their white peers.

See https://infogram.com/mathdisparities-ag-1h984wd3y7lv2p3

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#46

Here's a revolutionary idea that pretty much all of the world adopts, if students are having trouble with a topic, get them to do more of it, instead of running away from it. I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it till the next time you have t…

How many people that are good at math and love science / engineering decide to go into politics? I'm just talking without evidence but my guess is politics self selects for ambitious people that are completely inept when it comes to mathematics and critical thinking in general.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#47
This state has lost its mind. When I have kids, they are going to private schools or if I can't afford that home school. Seems like the aim of California schools is to create politically radical students, who can't do math. Perfect for our times!

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#48

Here's a revolutionary idea that pretty much all of the world adopts, if students are having trouble with a topic, get them to do more of it, instead of running away from it. I always find it hilarious that the pre college education in US is so messed up. Instead of doing Algebra 1, Algebra 2, calculus, geometry as one subject that you do in a year and then completely forgetting about it till the next time you have t…

[deleted]

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#49
post #3

Well that's stupid. If anything they should introduce it sooner. There's tons of research that show the sooner it's introduced the better they are able to digest that (as in it becomes more second nature and are later able to reason with it and build off that knowledge better).

It's hard to introduce Algebra much earlier than 8th grade - the students just don't have the mathematical maturity for it. What you can do though is challenge and expose them to slightly more complex applications of ordinary math (often stated via increasingly elaborate "word problems") that make the introduction of algebra a lot more natural when the students are finally up for it. You tend to see this approach in…

> the students just don't have the mathematical maturity for it.

Doesn't this get at the root of the problem though? Some students have the mathematical maturity for it. Others don't. The arguments seem to be between "we should present these concepts early for the benefit of the students who are ready for it" vs "we should delay these concepts until all students are ready."

But different students have different levels of mathematical maturity. the problem seems to stem from working in a paradigm where everyone at a particular age has to learn the same thing. It seems we should be moving in the direction of more personalization rather than less.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#50

I was doing algebra and Russian math word problems in 4th grade (maybe earlier, it's been a while). What exactly is the logic of pushing back mathematical training to later grades? [1] 1: https://www.edhelper.com/geography/Russia_Math1.htm

Second grade in Poland I remember problems like this when learning addition and subtraction: 3 + ? = 10 10 - ? = 3

Yup, even 2x2 systems of equations. This stuff isn't hard, I don't get what the folks in the US are thinking.
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