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The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

hedgehogreview.com

51–60 of 198 posts

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#51

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions. Who is paying the bills, then? > no grades There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

It's fun, to me it's totally the opposite. I only learn if I learn by myself. In school I had a bad memory of the learning process.

Now ten years after finish school I think I have learn a hundred time more by myself than from my scholarship.

There is a quote from Taleb which looks something like this "What I learned on my own I still remember."

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the things you learned under pressure of exams and grades, how many of them do you actually remember? That is, did you learn for long enough to pass the test, or did you learn ?

Is it controversial/surprising to say that one would learn more from studying than not studying?

Is it controversial to say that cramming (remember, we're talking about studying under the deadline of a coming test) is not a great way to learn for long-term retention?

Is it better than not studying at all? Probably... but not much.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#53
post #2

In the spirit of the "things you can (actually) do (without asking permission)" posts, another one is * create a small seminar of your own for an academic or quasi-academic text or topic that interests you, and meet and discuss it I'm currently participating in a seminar on https://softwarefoundations.cis.upenn.edu/lf-current/index.h... and some people I know are running their own read-through of Plato's Republic at…

> I'm currently participating in a seminar on [Software Foundations]... No university required!

Take Software Foundations as an example. The tool it's written about, the logical foundations underlying that tool, and generations of pedagogic experimentation in explaining those idea that led to Software Foundations would not have been possible instances of the modern Research University in at least a half dozen countries (but most notably France and the US).

Even the human inputs to such a seminar probably require a university more often than not. The number of self-taught programmers who could work through Software Foundations is certainly miniscule.

There is certainly a viable community-building model here, not dissimilar from the Community Church or Hackerspace models! Just want to call out that it's sort of (virtuously!!!) grifting off of the spoils of research universities.

BTW: I'd love to see a Computer Science "Great Books" Curriculum. TAOCP, SICP, Cinderella, Dragon, Foundations, ... what else?

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not grow this thing into something bigger than it is - it's effectively a nice book club focussed on philosophy, and which had 115 readers as of June last year. It looks lovely, and looks like they have great growth, but let's not blow it out of proportion.

My comment was not about The Catherine Project. I was responding to part of your comment, which seemed to assert that "not-for-profit" is inconsistent with "business model". I pointed out that many non-profits do have business models. But I was careful to point out that this may not apply to The Catherine Project ("This particular not-for-profit may have no business model, i.e. no revenue outside of donations.").

Sure, not for profits can have a business model. Apologies - I thought we were discussing in the context of the article.

But yeah, of course, anyone can have a business model including not for profits, I think it just implies something that is heavily formalised and 'bigger' than it is (even though a business model could technically just be as simple as 'get donations and spend it on a zoom subscription').

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#55
post #28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that it’s dangerous. It’s that it has been tried and shown not to work. It certainly merits a history lesson and a post-mortem discussion, but that’s about it.

This is an oft-repeated nonsense line to dismiss some really interesting philosophy. Marx was not writing a plan of action, and all that has been proved is that authoritarian assholes are assholes. (I take if you also think Adam Smith should be discarded because parts of "Inquiry into the Wealth of Nations" doesn't map well to modern capitalism?) Here's a real test of a free thinker. Are you willing to read "dangerou…

> Marx was not writing a plan of action, and all that has been proved is that authoritarian assholes are assholes.

The Communist manifesto is literally a plan of action. It calls for an authoritarian government in which all financial assets, credit, real assets, and land are centralized and controlled by the state. It calls for seizure of all personal property of anyone who wants to leave the country. It calls for conscripting the public and forcing them to work in agricultural and industrial armies, also controlled by the state. It calls for state monopolization and control of the press and all forms of communication and transportation, etc. From the Communist Manifesto:

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-m...

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#56

> Since education rather than money is calling the shots, we have the freedom to ask unheard-of questions. Who is paying the bills, then? > no grades There's a reason why students cram at the end of the semester. Without pressure from grades, they won't do the work of learning. I know for a fact that I don't learn if there aren't exams and grades.

Of the things you learned under pressure of exams and grades, how many of them do you actually remember? That is, did you learn for long enough to pass the test, or did you learn ?

I'm well aware of the modern movement to discredit tests, arguing that doing well on tests have nothing to do with knowing the material. I'm not a subscriber to that. If you are, I expect you'll be disappointed with the results.

It's also why there are athletic competitions. It brings out the best in athletes as they strive to win. Are their achievements fake?

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have interpretations of the Republic. Other people have different ones. Discussing them is the point.

It is not a mere coincidence that discussing Marx’s Capital is never the point. They are approximately equivalent in their influence on humanity, but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation.

Huh? Why can't people discuss Marx's Capital? Whether or not you agree with his political philosophy, his historical work in Capital is fantastic and I recommend everyone read it at least from an economic history perspective.

> but only one of them offers a critique of the immediate situation

So you're a socialist. The whole point is that not everyone is, or maybe some people _are_ and they need to read the Republic and then Capital to come to that conclusion. Reading groups are all about access to new ideas, they aren't meetups of political groups. But there's so much more. Read Rousseau to understand the Social Contract, Bakunin for anarchy, etc

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#58

Has anyone ever stopped to consider the ethical question of applying the latest unproven fads of educational theory to unwitting students? Ideally before large scale rollouts? As someone who grew up during a tumultuous time for the public education system in Ontario, Canada, it felt like ever year or two whole curriculums were thrown out and the latest and greatest "cutting edge" approaches and fads were foisted upon…

"Great Books in Small Seminars" is one of the older educational models [1], and is itself in the tradition of one of the oldest approaches to education in history. This project doesn't seem substantially different from other Great Books approaches, except in that it doesn't charge tuition.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_books#Program

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#59
post #18

"We rely on donations from readers and benefactors to pay our staff director and expenses like our Zoom subscriptions." So begging is your business model?

Well, two things: 1) It's not profit generating, this is a not-for-profit organisation, so 'business model' is a bit of a loaded term. 2) The practice of having clubs / social groups where members are encouraged to donate money to help with the running costs is pretty common, and is not typically considered begging. I help run a local theatre group which we fund with a whip-around with our members to assist with the…

Profit generating is not the same as revenue generating. A non-profit can (and do) pay salaries to employees and directors, which is profit generating for those individuals.

Re: The Catherine Project: A new experiment in liberal education

#60

[flagged]

Please make your substantive points without fulminating and name-calling. That's in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29323747.

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