Live data from Hacker News

History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

21–30 of 67 posts

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#21

(note: I don't mean to be rude, but this comment has barely been up for 1 minute and I'm already being down-voted. Surely no one can read something this long this fast and down-vote even faster. I've tried to write a reasoned critique of the phenomena before me. It's not a political comment, but a logical one.) Any constitution is a fine balance of power, a body like this which concentrates power outside of the const…

Have you read Lokpal bill?

First, the Lokpal deals only with the Judiciary part of the constitution while both Legislature and Executive parts will be untouched. So it's not an alternative constitution. Even within Judiciary it deals only with officials 'who are facing corruption charges'. In fact Lokpal will be weaker than an income tax officer. A corrupt Lokpal can be removed within two months by the parliament!

Second, no one is questioning the electorate system. But when it comes to an effective anti-corruption law, just saying "vote the right person in the next election" won't cut it in a country rifed with illiteracy, poverty and communism. We should be pragmatic instead of just sticking to textbook definition of democracy.

Third, Gandhian is not someone who behaves exactly like Gandhi. Anyone inspired by Gandhi's principles is a Gandhian. Nehru was called Gandhian even though he declared wars.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's not a constitutional body. So as long as it remains independent (most likely) it'll be lethal against corruption.

So as long as it remains totally independent (most likely) it'll be lethal against corruption. But what if someone tries to corrupt them? What makes them immune from corruption?

A corrupt Lokpal can be removed within two months by the parliament.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#23

As rightly pointed out by Mr. Hazare this is only half the battle won. Part of the second battle should be simplifying the bureaucracy - paperwork, transparency, easily interpretable procedures that are available for general public and infrastructure to monitor the efficiency of the bureaucracy - how many cases people brought, what was the resolution time, why was it not resolved etc. Because the above are the main r…

There will be corruption as long as there are people who want to make a quick buck without working hard. We can only try to reduce and discourage it.

The problem in India is lack of development and education and poverty. As long as these issues are not addressed we will never touch the root of the problem, and will be just trying to treat the symptoms.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#24
post #13

(note: I don't mean to be rude, but this comment has barely been up for 1 minute and I'm already being down-voted. Surely no one can read something this long this fast and down-vote even faster. I've tried to write a reasoned critique of the phenomena before me. It's not a political comment, but a logical one.) Any constitution is a fine balance of power, a body like this which concentrates power outside of the const…

Totally agree. It seems like a media driven phenomenon. Incompetence is a bigger problem than corruption in India. The systemic problems that face the society need ambition, will and technology. This solution is too simplistic for me to be taken seriously.

According to the Lokpal bill 'incompetence is equal to corruption'. Any failure of executing a promised act can be brought to the courts.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#25

As rightly pointed out by Mr. Hazare this is only half the battle won. Part of the second battle should be simplifying the bureaucracy - paperwork, transparency, easily interpretable procedures that are available for general public and infrastructure to monitor the efficiency of the bureaucracy - how many cases people brought, what was the resolution time, why was it not resolved etc. Because the above are the main r…

There will be corruption as long as there are people who want to make a quick buck without working hard. We can only try to reduce and discourage it. The problem in India is lack of development and education and poverty. As long as these issues are not addressed we will never touch the root of the problem, and will be just trying to treat the symptoms.

It's a complicated problem - you're right in pointing out that part of it is education and poverty / lack of opportunities for every class of people. But again the bureaucracy is part of the problem - Government's schemes, aid doesn't reach the poor etc.

In that sense making the bureaucracy accountable, transparent is the first right step to resolve the other problems.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#26

Surely it's going to be part of history. Besides there are being RTI and other laws, it was much needed. This bill will be independent and answerable to people not government. Hope it helps for good.

Actually they are not answerable to anyone.

That's the most common FUD being spread against Lokpal.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#27

(note: I don't mean to be rude, but this comment has barely been up for 1 minute and I'm already being down-voted. Surely no one can read something this long this fast and down-vote even faster. I've tried to write a reasoned critique of the phenomena before me. It's not a political comment, but a logical one.) Any constitution is a fine balance of power, a body like this which concentrates power outside of the const…

The Indian leader Mayawati has already demanded that there should be reservation for SC/ST/OBC in Lokpal members.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Maya-seeks-reservation-for-SC-...

If this continues, I dont see JLB being any effective in rooting out corruption. It will end up being just another layer of bureocracy.

Edit:added link

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be corruption as long as there are people who want to make a quick buck without working hard. We can only try to reduce and discourage it. The problem in India is lack of development and education and poverty. As long as these issues are not addressed we will never touch the root of the problem, and will be just trying to treat the symptoms.

It's a complicated problem - you're right in pointing out that part of it is education and poverty / lack of opportunities for every class of people. But again the bureaucracy is part of the problem - Government's schemes, aid doesn't reach the poor etc. In that sense making the bureaucracy accountable, transparent is the first right step to resolve the other problems.

Yes, that is right, we have to make things more transparent. The RTI was one act towards that goal. Though, this particular act in the current form is not the right path in my opinion. People elected into the Jan Lokpal will be no different from people elected into parliament. There is no foolproof way to prevent them from corrupted themselves.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as long as it remains totally independent (most likely) it'll be lethal against corruption. But what if someone tries to corrupt them? What makes them immune from corruption?

A corrupt Lokpal can be removed within two months by the parliament.

I think the constitution also has a process mentioned, on how to remove an MP, but that system is not working well. So how are you sure that this system will work. Why are we not urging them to fix the former system, instead of adding more.

Re: History made in India: Govt agrees to anti-corruption bill

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as long as it remains totally independent (most likely) it'll be lethal against corruption. But what if someone tries to corrupt them? What makes them immune from corruption?

They can be corrupt, but then according to the proposed law every citizen will have a right to go to Supreme Court against the LokPal. This will surely be a deterrent.

I don't think such deterrents are going to influence corruption.

Does one decide not to harm someone, just because we have laws against it ?

By the way, don't we already have laws against corruption, why hasn't this stopped anyone yet ? Are more laws going to stop it ?

Post reply on HN