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Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

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Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#31

Post by angryGhost »

chrisseaton wrote: post #28
mvc wrote: post #27

I don't understand the attitute that most software engineers seem to have with recruiters. My early years as a software developer were in locations where opportunities were not like they are in your big tech centers. In those years, recruiters would get you a foot in the door and you were grateful for any opportunities that came. Even in big tech centers, until you build your own network, recruiters will likely be an…

Yeah it's a bit odd listening to people laugh about having to beat away Google etc recruiters with a stick.

google have recruiters? surely they have enough people applying on a daily basis

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#32

Post by BlargMcLarg »

mvc wrote: post #27

I don't understand the attitute that most software engineers seem to have with recruiters. My early years as a software developer were in locations where opportunities were not like they are in your big tech centers. In those years, recruiters would get you a foot in the door and you were grateful for any opportunities that came. Even in big tech centers, until you build your own network, recruiters will likely be an…

Because they generally form a barrier to entry for no particular reason other than familiarity and a significant part of them employ incredibly low effort and almost heinous practices.

Employers always had the opportunity to just put their job offers out there. If people know where to look and how to look, and employers are willing to cooperate, that cuts down on the benefits a recruiter and their "network". They might get you a foot in the door, but you have no idea what they said to get you in, and any flaw you present is still going to be shown. Meanwhile, they are going to push you, as your success is part of their income.

I say this given my average experience with a recruiter seems to be "anyone with a nice face, and up-n-get-em attitude and a degree can go be a recruiter", and proceeds to follow the same practices the general populace have complained about for years now, across every field, across every skill level. When the role they fulfill is very, very questionable given how difficult it is to get a job still and the alternatives available. There are great recruiters out there who know how to target and present themselves in a way that isn't a nuisance, but they don't make up the majority of experiences.

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#33

Post by chrisseaton »

angryGhost wrote: post #31
chrisseaton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's a bit odd listening to people laugh about having to beat away Google etc recruiters with a stick.

google have recruiters? surely they have enough people applying on a daily basis

You can have people applying, but not the right people applying, so you get recruiters to go out there and persuade people to apply.

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#34

Post by zivkovicp »

ajb wrote: post #29
mvc wrote: post #27

I don't understand the attitute that most software engineers seem to have with recruiters. My early years as a software developer were in locations where opportunities were not like they are in your big tech centers. In those years, recruiters would get you a foot in the door and you were grateful for any opportunities that came. Even in big tech centers, until you build your own network, recruiters will likely be an…

There are some good recruiters. But the problem is that recruiting is like being a real estate agent or rental agent: there is a big payoff for each transaction (up to 20% of 1 candidate years salary), and low barrier to entry. So there are an awful lot of people whose model is to 'drum up business' by hassling engineers.

This. Some are really good and actually filter opportunities and call back only when there is genuinely a good match... they put in effort, and it's pleasant to with with these folks.

The rest are parasites.

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#35

Post by strken »

mvc wrote: post #27

I don't understand the attitute that most software engineers seem to have with recruiters. My early years as a software developer were in locations where opportunities were not like they are in your big tech centers. In those years, recruiters would get you a foot in the door and you were grateful for any opportunities that came. Even in big tech centers, until you build your own network, recruiters will likely be an…

The problem with some recruiters is that they play a numbers game. They send you off to interviews you're not a good fit for, because it's more expensive for them to carefully understand candidates and roles than it is to spend longer understanding the requirements, and sometimes they actively mislead. Both the candidate and the company can end up spending 10x or 100x the time the recruiter "saved".

Earlier in my career, with 4 years of experience, I turned up to an interview with a CTO who told me within five minutes that I was a great candidate, but they were looking for someone with 10+ years of engineering experience to lead a team. We tried to work out why I'd been sent there, and discovered the recruiter had edited my resume to remove all the dates, and had removed the years of experience and leadership requirements from the job description.

Frustration with bad recruiters isn't an excuse to be cruel to the good ones, but that's why it happens.

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#36

Post by ThePhysicist »

Honestly, be grateful you receive so much recruiter "spam", sometimes great things can come from it. It's quite a HN thing to complain about receiving too many offers for jobs that are basically in the 99.9 % quantile of the highest paying jobs in the world.

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#37

Post by actually_a_dog »

mvc wrote: post #27

I don't understand the attitute that most software engineers seem to have with recruiters. My early years as a software developer were in locations where opportunities were not like they are in your big tech centers. In those years, recruiters would get you a foot in the door and you were grateful for any opportunities that came. Even in big tech centers, until you build your own network, recruiters will likely be an…

I like in-house recruiters, for the most part. If they're emailing me, that's almost a guaranteed interview for whatever company they work for. And, I get to know what company they work for, so, I can access their careers page to read the job descriptions. The only relevant piece of information that's missing at this stage is the comp range, which, since I live in California, I'm entitled to get some information about after I've had an interview with the company. So, at least I have some idea whether I might want to talk to them at all.

Since talking to the recruiter counts as an interview, and they actually want to talk to me, that means after one single phone call, I've got all the information I need to decide if I want to proceed at this point, and an almost 100% guarantee of some sort of followup interview[0].

Third party recruiters, OTOH, will send me bullshit like this:

> Hope things are going well, tried reaching you regarding a Remote Full-time Senior Backend Engineer role with my direct client.

> THEY OFFER,

> • A positive, open, and highly-innovative environment and team

> • Competitive Base Pay

> • Full benefits

> • Entrepreneurial spirit with unlimited opportunity to grow

> • Opportunity to work with leading global brands on exciting and impactful projects

... followed by a request to call them or for them to be able to call me.

They've told me nothing about the company they think I might want to work for, except some generic bullshit, and they want me to spend 15-30 minutes on the phone with them to get any real info. Generally there's nothing about any job description, and I don't recall ever receiving any info on salary/comp range from a third-party recruiter.

I used to follow up asking them for this information, but, that generally just gets me ghosted, or, them asking to call me, when I've already told them I'm not interested in getting on the phone without a little bit more information.

I understand why they do it. They're trying to protect their commission. They don't want to send me this information and then have me try to go behind their backs. But, that doesn't change the fact that they give me no damn reason to actually be interested in what they offer in their initial emails.

That's why I generally try to avoid third party recruiters, if at all possible.

---

[0]: It's pretty easy to get a followup interview after talking to a recruiter, IMO. Just show some enthusiasm and alignment with the job description, and you're about 90% of the way there.

Re: Automatically detecting and replying to recruiter spam

#38

Post by BlargMcLarg »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #36

Honestly, be grateful you receive so much recruiter "spam", sometimes great things can come from it. It's quite a HN thing to complain about receiving too many offers for jobs that are basically in the 99.9 % quantile of the highest paying jobs in the world.

Almost every subpopulation complains about these practices, including people who aren't desired. This isn't a HN-exclusive thing as some here like to perpetuate.

>Honestly, be grateful you receive so much recruiter "spam", sometimes great things can come from it.

Great things can come from getting into an accident and landing in the hospital. Let's instead look at why people dislike these things and how to solve them, rather than recruitment proceeding to do the same thing people hate for another decade.

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