UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative • Hacker News Board

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#231

Post by esrauch » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 4:34 AM UTC

tomatofarmer wrote: post #20

esrauch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referencing one weird out of context quote (which sounds like it was since clarified) from one nonprofit who got funding from the Gates Foundation. It seems somewhat disingenuous to make the claim that the Gates Foundation thinks Math is White Supremacy based on that.

The Gates Foundation is responsible for doing due diligence of those it invests in. Investing one million dollars is endorsing the organization's ideals. Out of context? Do you realize how many times the phrase "White supremacy" shows up in their manifesto "A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction"? They reference "white supremacy" a total of FIFTY TWO times[0]. [0] https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2…

I skimmed the workbook and while I wouldn't subscribe to every idea in there or the inflammatory phrasing, it looks like overall like it would be a useful tool for teachers. Lots of the sections that mention white supremacy seem to make fairly reasonable points about how eg if a student doesn't speak English well that doesn't mean they aren't able to communicate through mathematical ideas and it might be easy for teachers to discount their ESL students too quickly.

I don't think that the workbook is saying "math is white supremacist" but instead "it is possible for a math teacher to accidentally not serve their nonwhite students well if they aren't careful".

So I'm unconvinced it is reasonable to make the claim that "the Gates Foundation thinks math is white supremacist".

I actually also don't subscribe to "if you give an organization money they you are a proponent of every idea they have", pretty clearly since the big tech companies donate to politicians across the aisle they can't possible be said to be advocating for both a belief and it's opposite.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#232

Post by angelzen » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 7:24 AM UTC

throwaway34241 wrote: post #224

angelzen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal market based societies / economies have many failings, and would be a very interesting conversation to explore some of these. To refocus on the UC situation, and at the risk of putting words in your mouth, the general idea is that UC is exploring a set of policies, which may or maynot work for them, worst case they fail and some of the other XXX universities in this country will raise to the occasion and take…

> Liberal market based societies / economies have many failings, and would be a very interesting conversation to explore some of these. On an absolute basis maybe, but on a relative basis I'd say they've been very effective. But as you said that's a different conversation (which if you want to have off HN, my email is in my profile!). > worst case they fail and some of the other XXX universities in this country will…

Deep sigh. WW2 was prefaced by the Spanish civil war, which gave us Guernica and George Orwell. Stumbled recently upon a fragment of an account of the era. A society fractured along familiar fault lines, each side demonizing the other at levels difficult to comprehend, but becoming more and more plausible. We have to lower the temperature somehow.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#233

Post by 0des » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

legerdemain wrote: post #83

0des wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me how many GED students who had to fight certificate bias with get hired out of sheer skill.

At Stripe? None, to the best of my knowledge. It is what it is, sorry.

You don't have to be sorry, I'm lucky to be comfy with my current workplace. To me though, this is the dividing line in places that care about abilities, and places that are focused on 'checking boxes'.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#234

Post by 0des » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #68

0des wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes names, surnames and neighborhood are sufficient in some cases, I'd imagine.

Or 90th percentile on standardized tests. Can't have them entering on aptitude alone.

I wanted to acknowledge you but I'm not sure I understand this reply, perhaps I can revisit it later and give you a better formed response.

Re: UC slams the door on standardized admissions tests, nixing any SAT alternative

#235

Post by tomatofarmer » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 12:09 AM UTC

esrauch wrote: post #231

tomatofarmer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Gates Foundation is responsible for doing due diligence of those it invests in. Investing one million dollars is endorsing the organization's ideals. Out of context? Do you realize how many times the phrase "White supremacy" shows up in their manifesto "A Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction"? They reference "white supremacy" a total of FIFTY TWO times[0]. [0] https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2…

I skimmed the workbook and while I wouldn't subscribe to every idea in there or the inflammatory phrasing, it looks like overall like it would be a useful tool for teachers. Lots of the sections that mention white supremacy seem to make fairly reasonable points about how eg if a student doesn't speak English well that doesn't mean they aren't able to communicate through mathematical ideas and it might be easy for tea…

The workbook is a month-by-month guide for teachers. Each month has a theme. Each theme begins with "White supremacy culture shows up in math classrooms when... ".

For example, one theme is "Contrived word problems are valued over the math in students' lived experiences".

The themes for each month - from my perspective - are not necessarily bad ideas. My concern here is how everything is attributed to white supremacy, when these pedagogical suggestions are widely applicable all over the world. This exact document could be distributed to a teacher in China. Is a Chinese teacher, in China, teaching mathematics to a classroom full of Chinese students perpetuating white supremacy? I would like to see the contortions someone goes through to explain such a thing.

Also their thesis is complicated by the fact that Asians have the highest educational achievement in California, despite being non-white.

Regarding donations, I think intent matters. Does big tech donate because they believe in the entire platform, or are they trying to buy politicians to achieve a more advantageous regulatory environment? I would argue the latter. All the social issues are an irrelevant side show from their goal of increasing their bottom line.

Now what is the Gates Foundation intent here? When donating to a single issue non-profit, what can it be other than to support the mission?