TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing • Hacker News Board

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#191

Post by gfodor » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #188

gfodor wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to physical land and real estate then I agree there is a pretty natural definition of “at large” - the sovereignties the land is located within. For other things like copyright and other extra-physical forms of ownership that span society at large, there is no macro set of laws governing these things universally so context matters.

There are in fact laws governing copyright, and international agreements. Using the words macro and universally allow your statement to be true in the most literal sense that there are no universal laws , but otherwise, copyright is just as universal as land ownership. I.e. most places have a version of it, but there are many local variations. Arguably, copyright is probably more universal than land ownership since i…

I’m aware that there are international copyright laws but they are far from universal if that’s taken to mean human society on Earth.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#192

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #183

Volundr wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with any of these, but then I'm not familiar with Meta Horizon either. I'll be the first to admit I'm not up on what the "cool kids" are doing. If it helps feel free to imagine your explaining this to your culturally clueless but technically savvy grandpa. But looking at these, I'm just not seeing the value that NFTs have provided vs already existing methods. For example I'm looking at https://somniu…

> But what prevents me from simply taking the source image and simply minting my own NFT and displaying it? Because the NFT isn't just a pointer to an image, it's a tuple that also includes which wallet address is granting you that NFT. So, the "real" NFT for a work is the one granted by the original artist or other authority people culturally agree upon as the one that has real social and economic value. (For exampl…

> For example, it can show how wealthy you are, show that you are willing to patronize artists, cause the original artist to come visit your showroom, etc.

Many different kinds of publicity stunt can achieve these things. NFTs offer no unique benefits.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#193

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #191

zepto wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are in fact laws governing copyright, and international agreements. Using the words macro and universally allow your statement to be true in the most literal sense that there are no universal laws , but otherwise, copyright is just as universal as land ownership. I.e. most places have a version of it, but there are many local variations. Arguably, copyright is probably more universal than land ownership since i…

I’m aware that there are international copyright laws but they are far from universal if that’s taken to mean human society on Earth.

They exist in nearly everywhere on the planet are in fact a great candidate for the most universal laws that exist, and are objectively far more universal than land ownership laws.

“Copyright laws are standardized somewhat through these international conventions such as the Berne Convention and Universal Copyright Convention. These multilateral treaties have been ratified by nearly all countries, and international organizations such as the European Union or World Trade Organization require their member states to comply with them.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#International_copyri...

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#194

Post by zepto » Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #190

zepto wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NFTs are not signatures on works of art. The media is not signed by the NFT. A signed artwork is more valuable than an unsigned artwork. However NFTs do not create signed artworks. The artwork remains the same. The NFT is just a receipt for someone paying money to someone else, who in some cases is linked to the an artist. Is that valuable? Maybe. I concede that a bill of sale from some point along the chain of owner…

You seem determined to think with analogies. If my attempt above didn’t help you understand why people are paying tons of money for these things, I’m afraid I’ve run out of ways to help.

> The value of the distributed ledger is rooted in a theory

A theory which many people disagree with.

> You seem determined to think with analogies.

So do you.

An NFT is not a signature on a piece of art. You are trying to convince us that an NFT is analogous to a signature on a piece of art.

Whether the analogies of the crypto community hold is what is being debated here.

I assume you are aware that NFTs are not actually signatures on physical artworks.

> If my attempt above didn’t help you understand why people are paying tons of money for these things,

I’m sure you wouldn’t be claiming that people never pay money for things that later turn out not to be valuable.

Re: TheNFTBay: Fake, but Worth Discussing

#195

Post by zepto » Wed, Nov 24, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #182

zepto wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of conferring of unique rights is nothing to do with NFTs. For example, I can offer a free milkshake to anyone who parks in my parking lot in a yellow car. Then yellow car isn’t doing anything in this situation, I am, and if I can always change my mind. Then same is true with cryptovoxels and NFTs.

It has as much to do with NFTs as your example has to do with your parking lot, which is not nothing. The point is if 1M people all agreed to give a free milkshake to people who parked in your parking lot, the parking lot is pretty important.

What makes you think the parking lot is important? It seems like an entirely incidental detail in your example.

There are paving stones on which a million people walk each year. They are of no more importance than a parking lot in which a particular trade promotion takes place.