Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

tlkh.dev

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 217 posts

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#141

Post by FireBeyond »

vel0city wrote: post #118
CamJN wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's already the case, though. The battery life difference using Safari versus Firefox/Chrome is staggering. Sure, you don't have an option to buy a FF/Chrome mac atm, but you've definitely bought one where safari is the only decently efficient browser.

Is that really due to the hardware or because of the overall behavior of the two browsers? Isn't Safari better battery-wise than Chrome even on Intel Macs? IIRC Edge has better efficiency in Windows than Chrome, so its not surprising me Chrome is less efficient. Its a bloated shadow of its original self.

macOS has a bunch of energy management and performance-related "private" APIs and libraries that Safari is allowed to call, but Chrome is not.

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#142

Post by minhazm »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #113
minhazm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lower power, proportionally lower performance Except it's not. The performance per watt is significantly better on average. Only one of the examples in this post really talked about power usage and that example also says that the 3090 is using a special compiler and gets to use the special tensor cores in the 3090, but for the M1 Max it wasn't able to use the neural cores or the special compiler and still achieves…

For laptop usage, it's an amazing feat. But it's kind of a strained comparison. Power usage doesn't scale linearly with performance for any CPU (power consumption scales with the square of voltage) so squeezing the last 20% of performance out of a desktop chip could require doubling the power consumption. Which is actually find for a desktop because I really don't care if my CPU consumes 100-200W for a few minutes wh…

The Anandtech review[1] also compares it to the Ryzen 5980HS, which is the one you linked. The M1 Max absolutely crushes that chip as well, in some of the benchmarks it's more than 2x better. I don't understand the argument people are making saying it doesn't make sense to compare it to a desktop chip. The point is that the M1 Max is actually outperforming desktop chips in a mobile form factor. It may eliminate the need for a separate desktop workstation for a lot of people. Other mobile chips are not competitive at all to the M1 Pro/Max currently.

Even using Geekbench as the benchmark, we see that the M1 Pro multicore score is around 12650, which is 58% better than the Ryzen 9 5980HS you linked.

1. https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performanc...

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#143

Post by stephencanon »

bee_rider wrote: post #85

I wonder if they'll somehow include the AMX 'instruction' (or whatever it is) into BLIS kernels. GEMM isn't everything, but it is a pretty important building block in linear algebra. (I mean that's the big observation of these fancy tile based BLAS implementations).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMiWe07Rjss

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#144

Post by FireBeyond »

officeplant wrote: post #75
ardit33 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was like you at first, seeing that my chrome speeds don't feel that fast, then I did my first XCode build. Holly.. it is so much faster than my 2017 Macbook Pro. Super fast builds, and A huge productivity boost. I think it shows that if software is optimized for it, M1 can be/feel crazy fast. Unfortunately, anything running with Roseta, will not feel that fast, as it's performance will be hobbled by the emulation l…

Even the M1 port of Chrome is clunky, but then again chrome has always been clunky with MacOS. Firefox's M1 port actually got me to finally start transitioning out of chrome after being a fairly devoted chrome user since it released. It's the only third party browser on M1 macs that comes close to Safari in speed and handles window size changes (especially when video is playing) leagues better than Chrome.

Chrome completely crashes a few times a week on my M1 Max laptop. Very frustrating. Not even necessarily when I'm doing something actively, or intensively. I can have HN open as my only tab, be reading an article and I look back at the screen and Chrome has gone.

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#145

Post by JohnBooty »

jayd16 wrote: post #134
emodendroket wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason I care about performance/watt is because I actually care about noise, heat and battery life. Yeah, all pretty major concerns?

The point is at best I care about perf/watt indirectly and the things I do care about can be improved in other ways so its incorrect to say perf/watt is everything. I admit it's a pedantic comment but I was pulled in by use of "literally everything".

    The point is at best I care about perf/watt 
    indirectly and the things I do care about can 
    be improved in other ways
Not necessarily, at least not for single core performance. Even if you're willing to accept unbounded power consumption and waste heat, the die size of the CPU itself won't be increasing at the same rate.

You fairly quickly learn that dissipating kilowatts of watts of heat from something as tiny as a CPU die (or, more accurately, one particular subset of functional units from in a CPU core) is awfully difficult.

At some point, the CPU/GPU/etc need to be kept under a certain temp, which sets an upper bound on watts. So, no escaping watts/performance....

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#146

Post by lincpa »

Apple M1 unified memory architecture(published on November 11, 2020.) is my "warehouse/workshop model"(hardware architecture section published on February 06, 2019). It has not yet fully realized the warehouse/workshop model, It needs to further improve the programming language, compiler, and OS to support and promote my programming methodology.

Reference

1. The Math-based Grand Unified Programming Theory: The Pure Function Pipeline Data Flow with Principle-based Warehouse/Workshop Model

https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow

Its mathematical prototype is the simple, classic, vivid, and widely used in social production practice, elementary school mathematics "water input/output of the pool". My theory rebuilt the theoretical foundation of the IT industry, It makes the computer theory system fully & perfectly related to mathematics in a simple and unified way: from hardware integrated circuits and computer architecture, to software programming methodology, architecture, programming language and so on. It solve the most fundamental and core major problems in the IT industry: The foundation and core of the IT theory lack mathematical support.

2. Why my "warehouse/workshop model" can achieve high performance and low power consumption (take Apple M1 chip, Intel AVX-512, Qualcomm as examples)

https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow...

3. In the future, OS will be a DB, and Clojure will be the best DML, The future OS kernel will be a data-oriented scheduler (with Computer hardware and software integration architecture diagram)

https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow...

4. Foxpro Database-oriented programming paradigm is the development direction of the future programming language

https://github.com/linpengcheng/PurefunctionPipelineDataflow...

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#147

Post by JohnBooty »

FireBeyond wrote: post #140
JohnBooty wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic, any time anybody optimizes for anything , they're somehow punishing everybody else with "penalties." What if somebody on the Intel/AMD side of things includes some optimizations for SSE, AVX, etc? Are they punishing everybody else? At any rate, my idea was less than half baked and again, not exactly something I'm pining for. Was just thinking about things Apple might conceivably be able to try with the…

When they make optimizations for something, and then _artificially limit_ access to those optimizations (for applications that absolutely could utilize them) for purely commercial or marketing reasons, then yes, absolutely they're punishing. Intel doesn't forbid compilers from generating code for SSE or AVX. Apple _does_ forbid Chrome from using energy management and other APIs for no other reason than to keep it les…

I didn't realize Safari made such heavy use of private APIs.

That is unfair and I would not support that behavior whether talking about private software APIs or private hardware instructions. What I was half-assedly imagining wouldn't be anything like that.

(Although, FWIW, Chrome has private APIs too: https://blog.chromium.org/2021/01/limiting-private-api-avail... Different use case, but still.)

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#148

Post by JohnBooty »

FireBeyond wrote: post #141
vel0city wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really due to the hardware or because of the overall behavior of the two browsers? Isn't Safari better battery-wise than Chrome even on Intel Macs? IIRC Edge has better efficiency in Windows than Chrome, so its not surprising me Chrome is less efficient. Its a bloated shadow of its original self.

macOS has a bunch of energy management and performance-related "private" APIs and libraries that Safari is allowed to call, but Chrome is not.

Can you point me to information about this? The Google results are a bit polluted with (hilariously enough) articles about Google's recent restriction of Chrome's private APIs.

I've been having trouble figuring out exactly which private bits and bobs Webkit might be taking advantage of on MacOS.

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#149

Post by mehrdada »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #33
whynotminot wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the fact that you're even mentioning your desktop in the same breath is kind of the whole reason it is amazing. Like that's the rhetoric--holy shit your laptop is doing this. Apple hasn't even released the Pro desktop stuff yet.

I doubt that they can make another giant performance leap. I wager that most of their gains are from being a node ahead of the competition (5nm vs 7nm TSMC) and placing RAM on package for much fatter bandwidth. I am, however, very interested in seeing what the competition does in response.

RAM is not on package in the way iPhones are. Bandwidth should not be meaningfully affected by the placement of RAMs; perhaps slight latency improvement. It simply has many memory channels.

Re: Benchmarking the Apple M1 Max

#150

Post by jojobas »

rsanheim wrote: post #59
Thaxll wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why people keep talking about power performance per watt, do we know for a fact that a 90w Apple GPU would perform 4x faster if it was running at 500w? Does the performance scales linearly? The other thing is price, the m1 max cost $5k here. You know what kind of PC you can get for that price? A 3080 MSRP is $700 and beat any mac GPU right ( and that's a GPU from last year ). 5900x cost $480.

One reason: try to work alongside a 3080 or 3090 running at full power for awhile, and you will understand. Especially if you don't have really good AC in your work area during summer. =)

But you only need like 12% of the power to match Apple?
Post reply on HN