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Curious, why did a project of programming language hire a multi-person moderation team in the first place? That's the OSS version of HR? Or is it equivalent to a team of diversity and inclusion?
People have made fun of Linux having Linus as the dictator on top, but it seems like that model might be the best for long term project success...
Curious, why did a project of programming language hire a multi-person moderation team in the first place? That's the OSS version of HR? Or is it equivalent to a team of diversity and inclusion?
People have made fun of Linux having Linus as the dictator on top, but it seems like that model might be the best for long term project success...
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I don't think the Rust community is particularly prone to public drama. What other events are you thinking of?
Recently? Linux, Amazon, “turbofish”. Between Oct 2018 and Oct 2021... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1635638400&dateRange=custom&...
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Yeah I have the same impression. Other languages don't seem to have the same drama issues. Rust came out of Mozilla, which is super steeped in SF social justice culture (see the antics of their CEO). It seems like that culture was carried into Rust.
> Mozilla, which is super steeped in SF social justice culture (see the antics of their CEO) Who do you mean? The only Mozilla CEO I can remember being involved in any controversy was Brendan Eich, and that controversy was over his funding a campaign against gay marriage. I can hardly imagine calling that 'social justice culture'. (I'm hoping this comment doesn't summon him, like the last time I mentioned him on here…
This is extremely odious. HN is a public forum and everyone has the right to reply to your comments, especially if you mention them.
There are two statements here regarding things that have happened: > the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves > we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g…
> It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g., they would have initiated a ban but they were not able to ban a core team member), that a core team member intervened to prevent effective moderation, or that the core team prevented the mod team from being able to access official core team channels in order to moderate. It's not…
I think it makes sense, scoped to their domain. Eg a security team can’t do their jobs effectively if they can’t apply their policies to the CO or if CO can arbitrarily undo it — security needs to have the last say on security policies, but that doesn’t put them on the top of the chain.
The same would be true with whoever does financial auditing and verifies everything is done to process & legally, as well as HR guarding against violations, and so on. The C*O must be held accountable as well, because their violations are also the most potentially damaging
There are two statements here regarding things that have happened: > the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves > we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g…
> It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g., they would have initiated a ban but they were not able to ban a core team member), that a core team member intervened to prevent effective moderation, or that the core team prevented the mod team from being able to access official core team channels in order to moderate. It's not…
It is like HR staging a coup d'etat.
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I suspect that doing it this way puts pressure on the core team members who don't subscribe to the behaviors moderate the people on the core team who are problems. But one can never know.
Yes, that's how I read it too. At a guess, if the threat to resign didn't change anything the resignation also won't change anything and strongly suggesting the core team can not be trusted not to lie is a very harsh move that has the power to destabilize the whole Rust experiment. Massively dumb move this.
The success of Rust is not of concern. The control is.
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Right, and Ruby has had Matz, Python had Guido and to a certain degree PHP had Rasmus. As soon as you have more than one captain in the ship, politics and drama seems unavoidable.
Didn't Guido resign due to politics[0]? I think politics is an issue of organization size more so than structure. [0] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-Jul...
That said burntsushi at least doesn't seem like an activist to me, so the grievances are probably legitimate. Coming from someone less prominent they'd not have anywhere near the same weight in my eyes. We just don't know what they are.
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I'm reminded of this mid-2000s example of toxic behavior from Richard Stallman on Emacs, in response to a contributor who didn't have time to work on something because he just had a baby girl: https://tess.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms > It doesn’t take special talents to reproduce—even plants can do it. On the other hand, contributing to a program like Emacs takes real skill. That is really something to be proud of. > It h…
I found that quite funny.
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Recently? Linux, Amazon, “turbofish”. Between Oct 2018 and Oct 2021... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1635638400&dateRange=custom&...
Honestly I don't think this proves anything, change "Rust" for "Python", "Java", "C++" or even "Javascript" and you will get a similar number of results with Python being actually higher than Rust.