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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#751

Post by nouveaux »

lovecg wrote: post #719
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they outlined specific issues... I can't tell if a specific issue occurred, or if everyone is just assuming that there was an issue because the post is so vague. They seem to make it clear that their primary complaint was about the organizational structure: They wanted to have authority over the core team, but they weren't given authority over the core team.

That just begs the question, authority to do what? If there are no specific incidents on which they disagree today, then is this just an attempt to position themselves better should any such incidents occur in the future? If there’s no problem today, why all the fireworks?

The other shoe is that if they let the core team be above the law, when an incident happens, there will be all sorts of accusations of impropriety.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#752

Post by hintymad »

iamed2 wrote: post #84

There are two statements here regarding things that have happened: > the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves > we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g…

It seems there is an internal communication channel for the Rust team? I thought that the moderation team would moderate discussions in open forums like mailing list or issue trackers, but in this case we don't know what happened behind closed doors.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#753

Post by peoplefromibiza »

neuronexmachina wrote: post #379
dolni wrote: post #228

I don't believe proper free software projects require significant moderation of behavior between individuals. If someone says something that rises to the level of a crime, report it to your local authorities. Otherwise, if a person is generally toxic enough, they will be worked around. Note that expelling a person from a project for being a jerk in one or more instances may do more harm than good. What is the value o…

I'm reminded of this mid-2000s example of toxic behavior from Richard Stallman on Emacs, in response to a contributor who didn't have time to work on something because he just had a baby girl: https://tess.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms > It doesn’t take special talents to reproduce—even plants can do it. On the other hand, contributing to a program like Emacs takes real skill. That is really something to be proud of. > It h…

I find it factually correct.

One can be proud of their children and what they accomplish, but having them?

Happy would be more appropriate IMO.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#754

Post by LAC-Tech »

ferdowsi wrote: post #48
randyrand wrote: post #32

Programming Language authors love to formalize everything , but did Rust really need all of these rules and moderators to begin with?

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

I mean with this, the rust evangelical strike force, and the drama around actix-web - I'm not getting great vibes from the rust community.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#755

Post by nouveaux »

xtracto wrote: post #550
strunz wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have made fun of Linux having Linus as the dictator on top, but it seems like that model might be the best for long term project success...

Right, and Ruby has had Matz, Python had Guido and to a certain degree PHP had Rasmus. As soon as you have more than one captain in the ship, politics and drama seems unavoidable.

Didn't Guido resign due to politics[0]? I think politics is an issue of organization size more so than structure.

[0] https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-committers/2018-Jul...

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#756

Post by finnthehuman »

jjk166 wrote: post #416
ziddoap wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a resignation, not a prosecution. Edit: If it helps, imagine a time you quit your job. Did you provide a datestamped list of incidents that lead to your decision to quit? Or were you, by chance, slightly more vague and provide something along the lines of: "The culture/fit/hours/goals/growth do not align with mine so I am resigning."?

I've always written out what specific issues I had that led me to resign. If you don't say anything, nothing changes. A resignation letter is a professional curtesy, the point is to provide useful, professional information. Of course in some instances there were personal factors that influenced my decision, and I didn't list those out in detail, but I let them know that those were issues on my end that the employer d…

You're a class act. Next time I leave somewhere I hope to be half as thoughtful.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#757

Post by samhw »

native_samples wrote: post #531
r053bud wrote: post #369

I feel like there is always drama or issues surrounding the governance of Rust. It has definitely made me wary to adopt it as a long-term language. Maybe I have recency bias or something.

Yeah I have the same impression. Other languages don't seem to have the same drama issues. Rust came out of Mozilla, which is super steeped in SF social justice culture (see the antics of their CEO). It seems like that culture was carried into Rust.

> Mozilla, which is super steeped in SF social justice culture (see the antics of their CEO)

Who do you mean? The only Mozilla CEO I can remember being involved in any controversy was Brendan Eich, and that controversy was over his funding a campaign against gay marriage. I can hardly imagine calling that 'social justice culture'. (I'm hoping this comment doesn't summon him, like the last time I mentioned him on here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28789197)

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#759

Post by politician »

smarnach wrote: post #746
politician wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of drama is already a defining feature of the Rust community. They can’t go 6 months without some kind of incident like this. It would be a positive if they could have a BDFL or corporate sponsorship to structure the community going forward because it doesn’t seem like the current community approach really works in practice. I realize that’s probably not possible at this point though.. unless maybe Microsof…

I don't think the Rust community is particularly prone to public drama. What other events are you thinking of?

Recently? Linux, Amazon, “turbofish”.

Between Oct 2018 and Oct 2021...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateEnd=1635638400&dateRange=custom&...

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#760

Post by politician »

staticassertion wrote: post #705
politician wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of drama is already a defining feature of the Rust community. They can’t go 6 months without some kind of incident like this. It would be a positive if they could have a BDFL or corporate sponsorship to structure the community going forward because it doesn’t seem like the current community approach really works in practice. I realize that’s probably not possible at this point though.. unless maybe Microsof…

Having been a part of the community since a bit before 1.0, no this does not happen every 6 months.

I posted a link to Algolia’s full-text search index below.
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