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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#641

Post by makomk »

radlad wrote: post #530
throwaway894345 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is what I was talking about. Shame on me for thinking people wouldn't overlook the first three words of the banner. (:

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt. It still surprises me that the phrase "black lives matter" is partisan.

At this point, the slogan "black lives matter" seems to be more of a partisan talking point than any kind of indication that the person using it does, in fact, consider black lives to actually matter. Up to and including shooting white people somehow being more of an attack on the notion that black lives matter than shooting and killing a black teenager, just because of the perceived partisan affiliation of the shooters...

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#642

Post by mlindner »

CryZe wrote: post #602
timeon wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have something to do with this: https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/1437441118745071617 ?

No, that has been deconfirmed on Reddit: Edit 2 https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/qzme1z/comment/hlne24...

That wasn't quite what they said. They basically said that this isn't about Amazon, not that it's about these specific people.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#643

Post by mumblemumble »

cormacrelf wrote: post #623
mumblemumble wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it's governance, not government.

It was a metaphor, for the citizen analogy. There is ultimately very little difference in terms of the shape of these problems.

True. But what differences there are, are critical.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#645

Post by whatshisface »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #634
iamed2 wrote: post #84

There are two statements here regarding things that have happened: > the Core Team placing themselves unaccountable to anyone but themselves > we have been unable to enforce the Rust Code of Conduct to the standards the community expects of us and to the standards we hold ourselves to It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g…

> It's possible that there were CoC violations that they were not able to moderate, that the actions available to them were limited (e.g., they would have initiated a ban but they were not able to ban a core team member), that a core team member intervened to prevent effective moderation, or that the core team prevented the mod team from being able to access official core team channels in order to moderate. It's not…

I wish they were saying "trust me." What they're actually saying is, "I won't tell you anything, and don't trust anyone who does."

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#646

Post by zozbot234 »

babyblueblanket wrote: post #122
zozbot234 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they would have initiated a ban but they were not able to ban a core team member If that was the case, the obvious response would be a formal statement of rebuke and censure wrt. the offending member's behavior, which would clarify that such things aren't welcome in the project. The fact that we aren't getting anything close to that extreme suggests that this is in fact a big fat nothingburger. (Unless you think th…

It might be that they cannot censure the offending member in any capacity, due to their core team member status. In that case, resignation is the only thing they have to effectively rebuke behavior.

As pointed out on r/rust, the approved Governance RFC states quite unambiguously that the Core Team is accountable to the community wrt. their behavior:

> Subteam, and especially core team members are also held to a high standard of behavior. Part of the reason to separate the moderation subteam is to ensure that CoC violations by Rust's leadership be addressed through the same independent body of moderators.

https://rust-lang.github.io/rfcs/1068-rust-governance.html

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#647

Post by danShumway »

Macha wrote: post #519
danShumway wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? This is posted to the Rust Org's issue tracker: that is an appropriate place to post a resignation notice for an open org with heavy community interactions, and it's an appropriate place to inform the Rust community in general about their decision. That it happens to be public outside of those groups is beside the point. Do you often show up on Open Source projects complaining that their public scrum boards or p…

It was also posted by members of the outgoing mod team to the community subreddit and tagged with announcement, so it's not like someone outside this drama saw the ticket and decided to reshare it with a wider audience.

> to the community subreddit and tagged with announcement

I'm not sure this really changes anything, it is a community announcement. I think this is something a community would want to know even independent of any other drama, even if they were resigning on good terms.

I guess I should clarify that I don't see letting the community know about something as necessarily equivalent to volunteering to debate or even to fully explain. I don't think this stuff is a binary category between never intending a message be read by the public (even if it's technically public) and doing something like a national TV news interview. Rust has a community issue tracker/repo that it uses for organization; posting notifications there (and in other community hubs like Reddit) feels very appropriate to me.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#648

Post by PragmaticPulp »

asoneth wrote: post #101

Is there any good way to craft a message like this? If they outlined specific issues then it would invariably devolve into armchair quarterbacking of those issues rather than the the underlying question of what kinds of checks-and-balances should exist for the Core Team -- gossip, accusations, and political discussions are a lot more fun than debating governance structures. On the other hand, if no specific issues ar…

> If they outlined specific issues...

I can't tell if a specific issue occurred, or if everyone is just assuming that there was an issue because the post is so vague.

They seem to make it clear that their primary complaint was about the organizational structure: They wanted to have authority over the core team, but they weren't given authority over the core team.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#650

Post by user-the-name »

notreallyserio wrote: post #44
user-the-name wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unaccountable"?

Heh. I couldn't help it, even if it doesn't make much sense. Still, I wouldn't trust them on teams where the goal is transparency and fairness, that's for sure.

You wouldn't trust people that go to great lengths to not bring internal conflicts into the public?
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