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Rust Moderation Team Resigns

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Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#581

Post by pyrale »

znpy wrote: post #445
pyrale wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moderating a community is not meant to entertain outsiders, but to prevent escalation within the community. No offense, but what do you expect to be able to contribute to this situation as an outsider? Would your contribution to the community be improved by additional information?

> No offense, but what do you expect to be able to contribute to this situation as an outsider? That's a pointless question. I might want to understand what's going on to understand if it's even worth it to be contributing to the community at all.

I'm not saying a post-mortem once the situation is resolved wouldn't be a good thing.

I'm saying that public awareness is not a priority while the issue isn't resolved, and that it may actually be detrimental.

> I might want to understand what's going on to understand if it's even worth it to be contributing to the community at all.

Usually, when moderation happens, information is best delayed until the problem is solved. That avoids uninvolved parties fanning flames on an ongoing conflict, and when information comes, it's structured rather than a stream of instant reactions.

Note that this is true whether the conflict finds a satisfactory resolution or not. If the team that leaves sees that no good resolution is found, they can disclose information later, once resolution attempts have been exhausted.

Note that this is from my past mod experience, I'm not involved in moderating the rust community.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#582

Post by worik »

bruce343434 wrote: post #72
ferdowsi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

In my personal experience such statements are pretty rare actually.

OpenBSD

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#583

Post by mdoms »

rust-throwaway1 wrote: post #548

I'm inclined to believe the rust moderation team even though they haven't disclosed any specifics. The way the core team exercises absolute authority in spite of community complaints has always rubbed me the wrong way. They present a facade of caring while crushing dissent. I do not recognize most of the core team these days, but Steve Klabnik and Ashley Williams stand out as likely culprits. I have personally submit…

None of the links you have provided shed any light because it's all deleted comments. Would you mind elaborating on Ashley Williams and her supposed "racism, sexism and antagonism"?

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#584

Post by dathinab »

vbezhenar wrote: post #512

Moderators are nothing. Developers are everything. Moderators can resign all they want. The important thing is that developers do not resign. Those CoCs are getting out of hand. It was a terrible idea from the start.

Many of the Moderator are also developers.

BurntSushi (who made the PR) while also being a moderate is more widely known of his technical excellence and grate contributions, like the regex crate and ripgrep.

Developer do resign over non technical topics, no one wants to contribute to a project where they don't feel welcome.

Toxicity in the internet is getting out of hand, CoCs are just a consequence of this.

It's basically impossible to run a larger community without a CoC (weather or not it's written down or implied). I have yet to see any larger community which doesn't have a CoC and doesn't has problems with toxicity, sexism and/or discrimination.

I have seen more then one or two highly talented people leaving the tech sector because of them encountering too much toxicity, sexism and/or discrimination on their first contacts with the sector (both open source and in companies).

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#585

Post by Sharlin »

devmunchies wrote: post #453
ferdowsi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

in my short experience in software (7 years), it almost feels like there is more drama when a CoC mod team is involved. without a mod team, you will still boot trolls or resolve a dispute. I think it's better to have a judge who can step in and resolve a situation than proactive police when it comes to OSS moderation.

I would think more likely all the drama and more is still there without a CoC or a team to enforce it, it’s just hush-hushed and allowed to fester. The world is chock full of examples of communities quietly condoning horribly toxic and outright criminal deeds and abuses, often toward less privileged people, that have continued for decades because ignoring, suppressing and silencing is easier than the alternative.

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#586

Post by worik »

tharne wrote: post #562
ferdowsi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

On average I've found projects with explicit CoC's to be more toxic than those projects without Coc's.

It would be illuminating if you could back that up with examples

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#588

Post by Angius »

rust-throwaway1 wrote: post #548

I'm inclined to believe the rust moderation team even though they haven't disclosed any specifics. The way the core team exercises absolute authority in spite of community complaints has always rubbed me the wrong way. They present a facade of caring while crushing dissent. I do not recognize most of the core team these days, but Steve Klabnik and Ashley Williams stand out as likely culprits. I have personally submit…

The r/node thread has been deleted, but here's the archived version of it: https://archive.fo/f10KK

Archive.org version for good measure: https://web.archive.org/web/20170828212225/https://www.reddi...

Re: Rust Moderation Team Resigns

#589

Post by yeputons »

bruce343434 wrote: post #72
ferdowsi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, yes. A growing community needs healthy management in order to avoid reputational damage to the core language. There's no shortage of guidance to "stay away from X tech because the community is toxic and non-serious"

In my personal experience such statements are pretty rare actually.

I openly advise my students to stay away from posting questions on StackOverflow and ask for help among their peers and teachers. At least until they're able to clearly grasp what the "Minimal Complete Verifiable Example" is, how to minimize code, and how to google problems with slight variations, which are not easy skills.

It's not to say that StackOverflow is generally toxic. It is, though, unusable by beginners, and it's mostly by design. And I don't think there is a good way to communicate this to a beginner whose question has been just closed because it lacks details.

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